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In this Discussion
- Alohomora November 2017
- Ammit November 2017
- Stone Silo Farm November 2017
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Showing Tips?
-
Hello,
I was wondering whether someone can clarify some of the finer points about showing in connection with breeding.
Is consistency/inconsistency genetic?
Does profit come in to play when breeding?
How important is the performance test grade? - From my understanding it is a judge's opinion of what the horse is capable of, therefore not as important as total points.
Is the total points of a horse genetic? - As in if I breed a 9.5 stallion to an 10 mare, the foal will earn about the same points as its parents do?
Thank you.Montesque breeder of appaloosa Nat'l Draft horses. -
Hello!
1) Yes, consistency is inheritable. Horses can pass inconsistency down to their foals. We each play this game according to our own goals, but many players will snip an inconsistent horse, even if it passes Strict Breeding Advice (SBA). If it otherwise has desired genes, the horse might be left intact, and GMTed when funds allow. BUT, keeping an inconsistent SHOW horse is likely to drive you bonkers. He could sweep his classes one week, then place dead last for the next three weeks. Whatever your horse is intended for, inconsistency is not a desired trait.
2) Profit is affected by showing ability and consistency (and, of course, training AND showing the horse each week). Showing ability and breeding ability (paper level) ARE NOT RELATED AT ALL. So, nope! Some of my best breeders are terrible at showing.
3) A higher PT grade means your horse will be trainable longer. A horse with a PT of 11.4 will not "level off" nearly as quickly as a 7.7. Pretending these horses are the same age, both altered, by the time they both reach age 16, the 11.4 PT will be trained to a MUCH higher level (as long as you trained each week, of course, or have an upgrade to train for you), will earn a much higher payout in each class, and have many more points rewarded in each class. Thus, 11.4 PT SHOULD be a much higher source of income for you than the 7.7 PT. BUT, as you have observed, some horses show better than others. A terrible show horse with 11.8 PT scoring last most of the time is less valuable to you than the 11.4 near the top of her classes every week.
When you are shopping to buy or adopt ESTABLISHED show horses, you are correct that you want to check the horse's show record and total points, and those will give you more important info than the PT for the sake of immediate money-earning.
Do not forget to pick out your AtA horses if you have not already. You will be amazed how quickly a few good show ponies will improve your daily show bonus.
PT has NO CORRELATION with breeding quality. CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. BUT, once you develop a larger stable, and you have to make harder cull decisions each season, you MAY decide you want your breeding horses to have good paper levels AND higher PT. Don't worry about that right now.
As a new player, you want SHOW HORSES, to earn money, to expand your stable, so in the future you have room for great breeding stock. So, a good PT is much more important to you right now than breeding paper level (especially since horses show better when altered, making their paper level completely useless) for reaching a goal of great show horses. BUT, you don't NEED to know the PT if money is really tight. Horses follow their PT whether you have revealed it or not. So, YES, it is important for the PT to be as high as possible. BUT you don't need to "see" it if you don't have the funding to test it. We all develop our own PT cutoff per generation, so there are no hard and fast rules, but many players have shared their personal standards (search the forum for some examples if you want).
4) Sort of. You are on the right track, but there are exceptions based on the hidden potential range of scores we cannot see, and Ammit is not telling ; ) Breeding two great horses does not guarantee your foal will be great, or even good; it just makes it LESS likely the foal will be low quality.
Horses with higher PT will likely yield foals with higher PT, and higher PT will likely yield a better lifetime shower; thus, more lifetime points. BUT, just as in real life, you can cross two Olympic champion show jumpers, and get a horse who cannot jump for beans. Leaving your broodmares for a longer time in the pasture (up to 30 days) means you are LESS LIKELY to yield a LOWER quality foal, but there are still elements of inheritance that are just up to computer-generated chance. I have broodies with 0.2 PT who I cross with 10.5 stallions. They nearly always give me foals with 9.0+ PT. I personally DO NOT get rid of a good foundation broodmare just because her PT is low, but am much more strict with my breeding stallions. Some players cull all foundations below 9 PT, etc. I have little tolerance for low PT in my altered horses, though (my show string). In fact, I no longer keep altered foundations for show horses. They go to auction and I use that money to buy, for example, someone else's 5th gen+ auction cull who has a much better PT.
.
If you need clarification on any of these points, please ask! Also, note I am referring to my HJ2 stables in my examples. I have not been on this server long, so my stable HERE is not a good example of any of this right now.Post edited by Alohomora at 2017-11-12 09:22:48 -
Showing ability and breeding ability (paper level) ARE NOT RELATED AT ALL.
Only in foundations NOT the case in lined horses. They are not the same but they are absolutely related.PT has NO CORRELATION with breeding quality.
Again in lined horses this is not true. They absolutely correlate.Post edited by Ammit at 2017-11-12 10:04:07Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/herThanked by 1Alohomora -
There is a correlation between PT score and breeding ability but it's complicated.
When you create a horse (push the create button or breed button) the game does COMPLICATED MATH to determine what the horse's showing ability will be, and what its breeding ability will be. When you create a foundation horse, unless it's an exceptional (breeder or shower) those abilities can range from zero to 100, which is the total range available to foundation-quality horses. This is why you can have great foundation breeders who are really lousy showers.
When you BREED horses together, the game uses sire and dam's breeding ability to determine what the foal's breeding and showing abilities will be, so the range of possible scores is a lot smaller than 0-100. You can still have horses that are good showers and poor breeders, or poor showers and good breeders, but it's relative. What you can't do is look at two otherwise identical horses (say, two colts who are 2nd generation and A-papered, with the same sire and the same quality dam) and decide that one will be a better breeder because he has a higher PT score.
Fortunately the game has a lot of testing options, even ones available to players on free accounts. Trust their advice and don't worry about it too much. :)Post edited by Stone Silo Farm at 2017-11-12 13:16:50 -
Yes, Ammit and Stone Silo Farm pointed out a very obvious DUH I should have specified. I am ONLY talking about when the parents are foundation horses. Thank you both for correcting me.
I assumed since the advice was for a newer stable, the focus was on foundation horses, but I definitely should have specified.