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In this Discussion
- Ammit December 2017
- Kintara December 2017
- reyvens stables December 2017
- SandyCreekAcres December 2017
Who's Online (1)
- GoldenSpur 11:10PM
Excessive White?
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I'm trying to figure this out:
I bred these two horses together:
http://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=3685257
http://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=6105736
The only White the Stallion carries is W20, and his WF is Light.
The mare carries Roan W2, Splash (x2), Frame, WF is extensive.
I got 'The foal carried an excessive burden of white mutations causing it not to survive'. I thought W20 wasn't lethal with other genes like Whites and splashes. -
If the foal inherited W2, Splash, and Frame from the dam, W20 from the sire, and got extensive white factor, the white enhancing characteristic of W20 might have pushed it over the viable limit, especially if it also got the dam's Frame.
White 2 and White 20 can push the total Kit mutation load to 105, according to the numerical chart that Ammit first posted when she redid the effects of the Kit mutations. The addition of the white from the Splash might have helped push the foal's total over 100.
Here's a quotation from one of Ammit's posts from the time of the lethality modifications. I have made the especially relevant sentence at the end of the post bold. Your mare just has Splash 1, not Splash 2, but there is also the possibility of Frame being added to the broken gene list for your pairing.
In real life a pregnancy fails if a foals genetic make up is too broken. That can happen for all sorts of reasons but relevant to us are color genes that break important biological functions. For example frame brakes the ability to create lysine. The horse can get by with one working copy but if both copies are broken the foal can not survive.
Remember that wild horses are/were pangare bay dun and any variation of that is caused by a gene that broke. Some breaks like A becoming a are not a big deal but some like KIT becoming KIT w10 can be pretty powerful breaks that can mess up a lot on a cellular level. The more of these breaks you have the more problems you can get.
The ultimate defining of if a foal will survive after birth or if it will be even born at all is not an specific combination of genes. It is if the the unique combination of genes of that horse are such that things are so broken it is unsurvivable.
In the future some genes like frame will be strict two copies equals death, most genes will be any combination survives. Some gene combinations when combined with high white factors will cause lethal foals.
I can not give exact examples just yet because I don't know where all the chips will fall just yet, but just liker real life you will not be able to just look at two horses and know for sure if they will have a 25% chance of a lethal foal anymore. Some will have much lower instances of foal mortality then that.
So instead of w4 + w2 always being lethal they might only be lethal if the foal is w4w2 and extensive WF. (Example only, I don't know how this will end up for sure.)
No genes will gain lethality that were not lethal before, but many genes will be less lethal then before and have more crossing options. On those risky genes you will need to stick to low WF animals and limit other broken genes.
For example: a w4w2 might be fine but a w4w2 frame and splash 2 may be too broken to survive. Note that all of those genes are already genes that can be lethal in the right combos.Post edited by SandyCreekAcres at 2017-12-21 23:20:47Thanked by 1reyvens stables -
Check out this chart, as you can see W2 with W20 is mostly ok, except with extensive white factor
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HKUJgwuzbKilAgePgMfMewYd8kU3BKWbe8OcX5QNy_Q/edit#gid=0
W2 can be anything from 20% to 90% white
W20 can be anything from 5% to 15% white
If white goes over 100% the foal diesPost edited by Kintara at 2017-12-22 20:15:22 -
Thank you both! I knew there were changes made to lethal genes in the game but I couldn't seem to find the specific posts that talked about it so both of these helped immensely!Thanked by 1Ammit
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Here is the actual post. You can bookmark with the star icon and/or look for "Lethality" in the post title in announcements.
http://www.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/16745/new-kit-lethality-and-kit-mutation-load-explained#Item_19Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/herThanked by 1Cutthroat Basin