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In this Discussion
- BlissEquine February 2018
- SandyCreekAcres February 2018
- Stone Silo Farm February 2018
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- GoldenSpur 1:40PM
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Breeding Help
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How do I breed two horses without having the foals have a high chance at being gelded and spayed? is it papers or PT scores? Any advice is appreciated! Thanks in advance!
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Every horse has a range that determines what it will contribute to its foals, both for breeding ability and for showing ability. Both mare and stallion contribute to the abilities of each foal. Only Ammit knows the exact formula that determines the result.
That said, the best way to optimize the percentage of intact foals is to match the breeding abilities of the mare and stallion you plan to mate. An intact foal is by no means guaranteed, however you breed them, even if you're using your pasture and all the mares have been there 30+ days, which hides the lower end of their range of possible contribution.
Paper level is what gives you an idea of the breeding ability of a horse. Equivalent paper levels for stallions and mares run like this:
C/Yellow
B/Red
A/Blue
*Star/*Gold
Within each paper level, however, there is a fairly wide range of exact breeding ability, so there still is a lot of chance involved. Comparison testing stallions can be helpful, especially to determine the best colts.
Case in point: C-papered Stallion Clyde is bred to a number of Yellow papered mares. Four B papered colts are produced.
Colt 1 comparison tests about as good as his sire. So he's only just enough better than Clyde to paper a level higher, but not a great deal.
Colt 2 comparison tests Superior to colt 1, so we know he's better than the first colt and quite a bit better than Clyde.
Colt 3 comparison tests about as good as Colt 2. Now you have two colts that are definitely better than Clyde.
Colt 4 tests Superior to Colt 2. Now we have found the very best of this set of colts.
I would neuter Colt 1 at the start, since he's only a bit better than Clyde. I would leave Colt 2 and Colt 3 intact until Colt 4 pops up superior to his brother, Colt 2. I would leave him intact and geld Colts 2 and 3.
So, Breeding Advice left 4 colts intact. Comparison Testing prompted me to geld three of them because only one is definitely better than his three brothers.
Neutered horses have an advantage in training. I'm not certain of the whole picture there, but I know they generally have an additional year of training before they level off. Neutered horses are your friends. Unless you are extremely cramped for space, keeping more neutered horses than intact ones is good strategy.
I have recently had a batch of colts from the same sire. Quite a few of them came through their testing (including Smart Breeding Advice) intact. I neutered most of them myself because their paper level (B) wasn't any better than their sire's, and I had several A sons from that stallion.
There are two mantras I keep in mind when testing my foals. "There's always next breeding season." and "Neutered horses are a blessing to my income."
Post edited by SandyCreekAcres at 2018-02-07 18:58:10Thanked by 1Johara -
Your best bet is, like SandyCreek said, to match horses of equal breeding quality - and then to use the pasture to breed them so you raise the minimum threshold for what they're going to produce.
That said you're going to end up with a lot of spays/geldings no matter what you do. I ran the numbers the other day and it seems like it's about 25% intact if you're using strict breeding advice. It'll be higher than that if you use regular breeding advice. And there's just not anything anyone can do about that because that's the nature of the game. :)
But geldings and spayed mares are important, valuable horses too. They're the backbone of a successful show string, for all the reasons she said above. -
Thank You everyone!