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In this Discussion
- Ammit November 2018
- Feather Farms November 2018
- Forestshadow November 2018
- Herzeloyde November 2018
- MW Stables November 2018
- SandyCreekAcres November 2018
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- amber 12:13PM
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Non-dun2
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"Recessive dun is now labeled with the most current correct genetic name non-dun 2 or nd2 for short"
I did just notice this in a foal I just bred! My question is though, does that mean nd1 is coming into the game too? :) -
I wonder what nd1 would look like if it existed
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Nd1 does exist and causes some faint, dun-type markings, I think, but not the characteristic placement of pigment granules that cause color dilution. Nd2 has no dun-type markings at all. Here's a link to the scientific paper that Ammit linked to on the Facebook discussion group.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/287646074_Regulatory_mutations_in_TBX3_disrupt_asymmetric_hair_pigmentation_that_underlies_Dun_camouflage_color_in_horses?fbclid=IwAR0398fcQNS6f6PNaRnbpMAtkxORo1-flAJwoRR1hISqQUD1s_cJ74RSKlY
I'm not certain I completely understand all of the text, but there are 3 pictures of horse hindquarters showing the appearance of the three alleles. -
Nd1 looks like a non-dun horse, but with some dun-markings, like a dorsal stripe, zebra stripes on the legs or a darkened area over the withers. Some nd1 horses have less, some more of the dun-markings. They do not have the dilutions, caused by dun.
To simplify it, there are one way for a horse to be dun (D), but there are two mutations for non-dun. Nd1 leaves some of the dun-markings, and nd2 leaves no traces of dun at all. The nd1-mutation is probably older than the nd2-mutation, and is very common in older breeds, like the iberian horses. I have seen only a few lusitanos without nd1 f.ex
My horse is nd1nd1, and was actually one of the horses that we collected samples from when the scientists found the Dun-gene
(sorry about my english, my brains are very language confused today) -
So basically nd1 is at least one of the things (if not the only thing) that's responsible for countershading in non-dun bays, creams and so on.Post edited by Feather Farms at 2018-11-24 09:41:33Who honors those we love for the very life we live? Who sends monsters to kill us and at the same time sings that we will never die? Who teaches us what's real and how to laugh at lies? Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend? Who chains us and who holds the key that can set us free? It's You! You have all the weapons you need, now fight!
My Equine ArmyThanked by 1Kintara -
@Feather Farms exactly :)
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Here are a few photos of my horse (the bay). I am trying to find photos that really show his nd1, but this is the best I found today.
Here you can see some darkening along the top line. (The gray horse is actually his cousin, who used to be a world champion in working equitation)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2231133510245176&set=a.167152629976618&type=3&permPage=1
More darkening on his top line:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2218582414833619&set=a.167152629976618&type=3&theater
His dorsal stripe/countershading
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4842/45118594625_8174052fcf_c.jpg
Not super photos for showing the shades of nd1, but what I could find today.
Two of his foals have super strong markings, including very clear zebra stripes -
I just noticed the change and I was so confused! Thanks for the explanation!
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What a beautiful horse and great photography!
Thanks for sharing the personal information about nd1. That was very helpful.Thanked by 1Herzeloyde -
Ah, I found a photo of him, showing the signs:
And here are a few of his nd1-foals:
The little filly, that did not get her will for the first time:
Brasil is their father, different mothers. -
Great photos!
I minor correction though, it's a lightening of the body not a darkening of the top line. nd1 horses have some very mild body dilution.Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her