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Bluegrass26 · Jan 23, 2019 10:38 AM

Does a horse need to be compared to its sire threw comparison testing to see if its superior if it passed strict breeding advise? Or does passing strict breeding advise mean it is for sure superior?

SandyCreekAcres · Jan 23, 2019 11:05 AM

No, SBA does not guarantee a superior to sire colt.

I send all my pasture colts through SBA. Some of those who pass paper the same as their sire and comparison test about as good as the sire, some paper the same as the sire and comparison test superior to their sire, and some paper higher than their sire and comparison test superior to sire. Generally speaking, there are a lot more of the first two categories than there are of the last.

Bluegrass26 · Jan 23, 2019 11:09 AM

Thank you that helps alot.

Forestshadow · Jan 23, 2019 5:43 PM

I've had B papered colts that tested AGA as their C foundation sires. So no, it's not guaranteed.

Stone Silo Farm · Jan 24, 2019 2:18 PM

To add to this, you can have horses get through SBA that are actually worse than their sires/dams.

Bluegrass26 · Jan 24, 2019 9:28 PM

Worse? So to find out if its superior it needs to go threw comparison testing even if it passed the strict breeding advise. Am I understanding that correctly?

SandyCreekAcres · Jan 25, 2019 7:01 AM

Yes, you are understanding it correctly. There are three ways of checking the breeding ability of stallions. Consider them to be a series of sieves.

Breeding Advice has fairly large holes, but will compare any horse to the abilities of both parents and sort out those that are significantly worse than either sire or dam or both.

Strict Breeding Advice has smaller holes and also compares any horse to the abilities of both parents, so it sorts out all that are considerably worse than either sire or dam or both.

The Comparison Test has the smallest holes, so it looks at two stallions, whether sire and son, two brothers/half-brothers, or totally unrelated horses, and it ranks the two horses according to their breeding abilities, then lets you know whether one is considerably worse, or one is approximately the same (although there is still a range of slightly worse-exactly the same-slightly better to "about as good as"), or one is considerably superior to the horse it is being compared to.

This discussion shows my detailed explanation for one series of comparison test results involving three horses that may help you understand how it works. However, it's a very complex matter, so that may not make it entirely clear either. :)
https://www.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/33367/testing#Item_4

Stone Silo Farm · Jan 25, 2019 7:32 AM

SandyCreekAcres pretty much nailed it.

It's a pretty common misperception that breeding advice guarantees "as good as" when in fact it does not.

It's a pretty common misperception that comparison testing's "about as good as" results translates into "exactly as good as."

In fact no, neither of these things are true; I've had B-papered colts with A-papered sires and red-papered fillies with blue-papered dams skate through SBA, and just on papering alone they are obviously worse than their parents. (That of course goes the other direction, too; you can paper foals and sometimes they will be a paper level above their parents; A is always better than B, blue is always better than red.)

But yes, short of that, the only way to guarantee that a colt is superior to his sire is comparison testing.

Bluegrass26 · Jan 27, 2019 2:40 PM

Thank you very much every one. This game is pretty complex and all the help from this community is great.

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