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Regular sooty chestnuts and palominos have no DP. They become liver chestnuts and chocolate palominos if DP is present.

Chocolates are the same way.

This colt is heterozygous DP.

B Fruit Its Whats Here
This colt is homozygous DP.

B Chocolate Freak

Champagne covers all color genes. They will not be liver even if they carry DP and sooty.
This filly is regular gold champagne, no sooty.

SH 7906931 HighPoint
This filly would be liver...if she didn't carry champagne.

B Golden Time

Liver will be added to the name of a DP Red Dun, and a Red Roan as well as just Chestnuts and Palominos. Cremellos, and black based horses, ie brown, black, grullo, bay, etc, will not have a name modifier added if they have DP. A DP Cremello should look darker though, with a homozygous DP Cremello almost looking like a non sooty Palomino.

*facepalms* I was so focused on Dp blacks and bays...

Here's a liver red roan to make up for my making things more confusing.


EarthlyDelights S

For roans, you really have to check the face and legs. Her body is too roaned out to really evaluate, but her legs are much browner and darker than a regular chestnut. Hope that helped! :)>-

Yeah, her body almost looks bay roan, which is a giveaway, but she is one of the lighter roans I have. I could reroll her, I guess; but I kinda like the variety.

Thank you, everyone, so much.

E- horse color names do not change.
Champagne color names do not change. I love that (Liver) Gold Champagne color.
Chestnut, Red Dun and Red roan get Liver added to the name of the color.
Chocolate Palomino with four darkening genes look better (in my opinion) than those with three.
I have Homozygous Sooty horses that look very dark brown, are these probably heterozygous DP?

Homozygous ff Flaxen lightens manes to red on Liver and cream on Chocolate Palomino.

Her dam doesn't seem to carry DP. She would be darker if she did. The best person to ask would be @MasterStables as they have more experience with the darker colors, but I'm going to say no because to me she's too light on the belly.

@TimidGoddess, homo DP horses are quite rare (unless you GMT it ofcourse). The only foundation horses that you can create that are guaranteed to be homo DP are freaky friday and cherry drop creates. Homo DP horses *can* occur on regular creates too, but that is very very very rare, just as it is already uncommon/slightly rare to create regular horses with DP.
However, there are also a few Herd Helpers that are guaranteed hetero DP, being King's Ransom, Rhythm of Four, Decadent Chocolate.

To adress you question if Limited Cider is DP, I always look at the parents first.
Starting with her sire.
Limited Chocolate is from 2 parents that are both hetero DP: his mom is a decadent Chocolate herd helper (thus being hetero DP). His dad is a DP carrier too, as it says in his notes (but is also visible in his color name and phenotype [visible coat color]).
So with 2 parents being hetero DP, there is a 25% chance he is homo DP, 25% no DP and 50% he is hetero DP.
Next thing I did is look at his sires offspring to see how he compares to them. Limited Chocolate does seem to be slightly darker than his sire and dam, which might make you think he is homo DP. So comparing them to his bro's and sis's will help us figure it out.
I filtered the offspring to only chocolate horses: https://www.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=1&status=any&ageg=&agel=&agee=&erag=&eral=&erae=&heightg=&heightl=&heighte=&boneg=&bonel=&bonee=&f_basic=none&f_adv=none&f_limit=25&stallion=1&mare=1&gelding=1&spayedmare=1&bty=1&lined=lined&foundation=1&name=&name_lm=like&color=chocolate&color_lm=like&owner=&owner_lm=like&breeder=&breeder_lm=like&sire=4563094&sire_lm=like&dam=&dam_lm=like&barn=&barn_lm=like&pasture=&past_lm=like&tattoo=&tat_lm=like&tat_and=and&club=&bc_lm=like&bc_and=and&e1=&e2=&a1=&a4=&a2=&a3=&f1=&f2=&p1=&p2=&s1=&s2=&s3=&c1=&c2=&c3=&d1=&d3=&d2=&g1=&g2=&ch1=&ch2=&z1=&z2=&sa2=&sa1=&mu2=&mu1=&chn2=&chn1=&kit1=&kit2=&kit3=&kit4=&kit5=&kit6=&kit10=&kit11=&kit12=&kit7=&kit8=&kit9=&sp1=&sp2=&sp3=&spM=&pax31=&pax32=&rb1=&rb2=&o1=&o2=&l1=&l2=&ice1=&icei=&ice2=&ice3=&ice4=&ice5=&ice6=&ice7=&ice8=&ice9=&ice10=&ice11=&ice12=&ice13=&ice14=&ice15=&nexn=&nexx=&nexr=&nexg=&nexb=&nexw=&rainr=&rainwt=&rainpl=&raint=&rainna=&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1

There we see that he is darker than his sister:

5816301
But we also see 2 others that are much darker:

6410112

AW 71 DP LimitXMirro
Both of these are from Freaky Friday dams (they are homo DP), so seeing as they are so dark these 2 are homo DP. Their color is much darker and more brownish than creamish.
Therefore we now know that Limited Chocolate is only hetero DP, if he was homo he would be much darker/more brownish. So we now know that Limited Cider still could be a DP carrier, but is not guaranteed to be one as her sire is not homo DP but only hetero DP.

limited Ciders mom is from a Rhythm of Four create (hetero DP), so she could be a DP carrier too. However, I do not have much experience with champagnes, and having silver, Cream, At and Roan doesn't make it easier to spot.

So we now know Limited Cider's sire is hetero DP for sure, mom could be het DP but could also not be.

So I've tried to compare him to my horses, but I do not have any DP bay roan duns.
This one is a bay roan dun that is guaranteed to NOT be DP, as he is from old lines from before Dp was in the game:

MS RaveassageAge L SHOW
He's is darker than that for sure.
But Bay Duns are hard as they are, because bays have so many different varieties of colors (do a search for bay dun stysty horses and you'll see so many different shades).
Add in the roan and it is even harder to spot, as other people pointed out as well: you can have heavy roaning, almost invisible roaning and everything in between, also affecting the horses' coat color.

So what I did was I tried to see if I could breed a bay dun roan horse that I know would have carry DP. To do so, I wanted to breed any of my Freaky Friday mares (as they are homo DP). But I could not find any stud that was E? AA DD stysty and had Roan up for breeding. So I decided to skip the roan and just go for an E? AA DD stysty stud.

This is the foal that came out of it, guaranteed het DP (as her father is so light, he could not possibly have DP and her mom is homo DP):


MS2 Friday Time Lord htDP


If I compare her body, snout and legs with Limited Cider, I can see she is a bit darker than Limited is, especially on the snout: Limited has a more reddish snout. BUT. That could also be caused by Limited having an At gene as well, which also changes her shade.

So. I *think* Limited does not have DP, as her coat color seems a bit too light ,as well as her snout. But the roan really makes it hard to tell. So, best way to find out is to breed her!
I'd try to cross her with a ee fraky friday stud (as he is homo DP), to hope they produce a liver chestnut. If you get a black liver chestnut (a homo DP) then you'll know she has DP too!

Like I said, her mom is really too hard to tell because of the champagne, cream, At and roan. But if I compare her to the few other horses out there with the same genetics, she does seem a bit more darker than the others;
This is mom:

TG1 Sparkling Cider

These are the others:

7176082

6962060

TE 2 5372106

However, as I said before, the roan could be a big influence here so I'm not sure if she is DP or not. So again: best way to find out is to breed!



I wish I could have given you conclusive answers, but as I couldn't I at least hope this post has helped you understand the complexity of DP (and horse genetics/coat colors in general) a bit more, and that it sometimes is really hard to tell if a horse has DP as there are so many factors that influence the coat colors.

So, looking at a slightly easier expample...

JBP1 Limited Chocolate
Limited Chocolate is a 1st Filial, parents are both foundation horses.

ES Limited Edition F
X

JBP Dark Chocolate

He, and both parents are Homozygous Sooty and must be either Heterozygous or Homozygous DP to be Chocolate Palomino.
His father has a Chestnut foal that by a Liver mare, meaning the father must be Heterozygous DP.
His mother appears darker and all three of her offspring are Liver or Chocolate.

Looking at his foals, I find four. One is a Red Dun Roan, which is just not possible if he is Homozygous DP.

Am I correct in thinking that a Dark Chocolate somatic tattoos indicates Homozygous Sooty with Heterozygous DP?

TG Special Dark
Only 2 foals at this time, a dark Buckskin and a Chocolate Palomino Colt.

Rhythm of Four is het DP

@TimidGoddess a yes, I forgot to look at the foals from JBP1 Limited Chocolate. Indeed, he has a stysty Red Dun foal, if he was homo DP that would have been a liver red dun. So you're right, Limited Chocolate is het DP.

Dp is really gorgeous but can be hard to grasp sometimes :p

Another Gold Champagne, no offspring in the game.

DH1 GC Framed by a Ghost

By:

Immortal Ghost KP
Limiting 100 foals (he's been busy!) to 17 Chestnut and Palomino, I don't see any dark variants. I'd be confident saying homozygous SS and dp.

Out of:

EP OWAB Framed by Queens
Foundation mare with only two foals.