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FalhollowStables · Nov 7, 2019 4:03 PM

So despite scouring this forum and reading the genetics guide, I still have a few questions about Appaloosa blanket size.

Let's say I have a stud who is het Lp, and I want to breed him to mares that don't have Lp. So theoretically half of his foals will also be het Lp and the others will have no Appaloosa gene. But there are also two strands for the blanket size (ECA3P), right? + or PATN1? If a foal is het Lp, where does it get both ECA3P genes from? One from sire and one from dam obviously, but if the dams have no Lp, I have no sense of whether they carry + or PATN1?

I am writing this post poorly but I suppose my question is this... If my stud is homPATN1, some of his babies who inherit his appy gene could end up hom PATN1 OR het PATN1, depending on whichever secret blanket genes the non-appy mare is carrying? And I can't really predict which they'll get because I can't see the mares' blanket genes since they don't have Lp?

Am I getting this right :))

Taliesin · Nov 7, 2019 4:06 PM

Yup, pretty much! The ECA3P locus does show up in the GMT lab though, so if you keep a token on hand you can pull up any unbred mares you're curious about and find out that way

ChateauAlbere · Nov 8, 2019 12:52 PM

I have a bunch of foundation mares that hide a copy of PATN1.

For example:

Ats Quantification

When the foal's genetics are tested, the sire's alleles are listed first. So, Quantification's foal Doing Sums means that Quantification has a copy of PATN1. Because Tabulate and Calculate aren't Leopards, I know the Quantification has only one copy of PATN1.

Alberts Fire When Ready

Fire When Ready has had two foals inherit LP from the sire, and both of them inherited PATN1 from Fire. There's a possibility she's hom for PATN1 (I just haven't cared enough to only cross her with hom LP sires).

Dubliner is another that could be hom PATN1, but 99Bottles can only be het PATN because one of her LP foals did not inherit PATN1 from her.

Dubliner

Alberts 99Bottles

ChateauAlbere · Nov 8, 2019 12:56 PM

As a side note, this is probably pretty reflective of reality. While bay dun was the original base color of horses, spotted horses occurred pretty early on in horse evolution (leopard horses have been painted on cave walls). But since LP isn't present in a lot of breeds, PATN may continue undetected even in "solid" colored breeds.

For example, Reminic in Spots is an American Quarter Horse who has a PATN blanket but who has been DNA-tested as belonging to his dam and sire. LP/Varnish was probably mistaken for roan for a couple generations, and then it got crossed with a PATN1-carrying horse.
https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/reminic+in+spots

SherwoodStables · Nov 24, 2019 4:09 AM

The good news is that patn1 is pretty common, so it's no trouble to get non-appy mares that at least carry it. Or you could save a GMT and look in the lab.

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