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Shaetani · Dec 15, 2019 6:10 AM

If you breed two Liver Chestnuts together and the foal comes out regular chestnut (double sooty) you can conclude the following statements to be true, correct?
1) both parents are hetero for DP instead of homo
2) the parents DP are not on the same space (so parent A might have DP on the first space but parent B would have to have it on the 2nd space for both parents to pass on the non-DP to foal?)
The same would apply to Chocolate Palomino's as their color is dependent on 2 soot genes and at least 1 dp?

LenasHollywood · Dec 15, 2019 6:31 AM

1) Yes.
2) No. Both parents can pass either allele to the foal, with a 50% chance of each. It doesn’t matter whether it’s listed first or second. I like to think about actual genetics - a horse’s body has no arbitrary destination of first and second, that’s just a notation humans have constructed to make genetics easier to understand and to communicate.

MasterStablesMS · Dec 15, 2019 6:34 AM

The first statement is correct. If either one of the liver chestnut parents would be homo DP they would have given a liver chestnut foal (provided it has double sty). So yes, both perents are hetero.

The second statement is not true. I'll use this boy to illustrate why:

MS Mance Milkyway hKPhGP
If you look at Mance's KIT genes, he has Kit M on the first and Kit w20 on the second.

Let's take this foal of him as an example:

MS2 ManceMina SHOWE

When breeding a foal, the foal gets the first allele in it's genetic sequence from its sire, the second allele from its mother.

So for the first KIT allele, there is a 50/50 chance the foal gets either Kit M or Kit w20 in this case, 1 of 2 KITs that daddy has.
The second allele is from the mother, so if we look at the example foal's mother (a good china) there is a 50/50 chance she gets Kit w20 from her mom or Kit Sab1.
This girl ended up with the Kit M from daddy and the W20 from Mom (which are in their genetics both on the 'first' place).

It does not matter on what 'space' the DP (or in this case the desired Kit gene) is, there is always a 50/50 chance as from the 2 alles each parent has, 1 is passed on, the first one being from the Sire and the second one from the Mother.

It is just a matter of chance to get a hom DP from 2 het DP parents.

This Punnett Square under helpful hints in the FAQ will also help explaining this:
https://www.huntandjump.com/faq.php#877

It uses the frame gene as an example, but all the genes (DP/Kit M, whatever) work in the same way.

Wolvevenfrost · Dec 15, 2019 6:42 AM

You can actually tell if a Liver is Het or Hom by looking at it's color.

This is a Het DP Liver. A nice chocolatey color.

Chocolate Sundae Love

This is a Hom DP Liver. Notice how it looks Black? This is what we on the game call "Black Livers" cause they look black but are Liver.

Liver Do Tell
And it doesn't matter what side the gene is on the allele. This specific gene is one of the few "hidden gene's". You can't see it in the genetics but if you have a good eye you can spot it. Let's look at an example...

Let's say you have a stud who has the gene (DP) on the female's side (guessing how it looks)[d DP] and the mare also has it on the female's side.
They have a 50% chance of making at Het DP foal. And a 25% chance at making a Hom DP foal.

If both parents are Hom DP then the baby will 100% be Hom DP.
If one parent is Hom DP but the other is Het DP then they have a 75% chance of making a Het DP foal and a 50% chance of making a Hom DP foal.
If both parents are Het DP they have a 50% of making a Het DP foal and a 25% chance of making a Hom DP foal.
If only one parent is Het DP they have a 25% chance at making a Het DP foal and 0% chance at making a Hom DP foal.

It luck of the draw when dealing with parents that aren't both Hom for something. So don't be surprised if a baby doesn't get the gene's you want. There's always next time! :)

Edit: Ah I see I've been beaten to answer the question, lol.

Taridan · Dec 15, 2019 8:17 PM

thanks everyone :D Not sure why I derped so hard on my punnet squares, I blame it on the all day baking holiday cookies fried my brain lol.

SandyCreekAcres · Dec 15, 2019 9:07 PM

No, no, no--making holiday cookies all day baked your brain. :))

Sorry for being so "teacherly" pedantic.

Heifer · Dec 15, 2019 9:49 PM

And I *think* you can get a horse who looks het DP but is actually homozygous if it only has one copy of sooty. That’s the only explanation I can come up with for this colt being chocolate palomino.

HomDPIAssume

SherwoodStables · Dec 16, 2019 12:40 AM

Yep!

It takes 3 darkening factors- two sooty and 1 Dp, or two Dp and 1 sooty. Either works.

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