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C, B, A, STAR in 4 generations?
  • Is it possible to get C, B, A, STAR in 4 generations? I just boosted this A papered 4th gen and he is still an A. I was hoping to be able to naturally breed to Star papering within 4 gens without boosting but after this experience Im not sure if it is possible? Anyone done it?
    http://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=3077900
  • It would be possible with pastures I'd reckon, although I don't have a 4th gen Star in HJ2 yet. I'm positive I'll get one, one day! I have a A papered gen2 from two normal creates, I'd expect him to have a 4th gen star down the track, although I'd never be able to tell because eventually exceptional foundies come into it

    Still thinking about it LOL, but the first B would have to be a high B, ie superior to an exceptional, which is certainly possible from C/yellow foundies. The next one would have to be better than 'just' an A, like a good mid A, then the next one could be a Star. So possible but might take a bit for it to happen!

    This stallion started with mostly B's, but the gen2 was only the same level I get from my C's anyway, so it is at least possible I reckon
    http://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=3067518
    Post edited by Kintara at 2015-03-01 17:44:22

    image

    Breeding quality coloured sport ponies and cobs
    Hajinc - 145082
    HJ2 - 145
    Thanked by 1doorbell
  • Okay so I am going to have to be more careful with my mares I expect. It's easier with the stallions because their papering seems more stable. I have just been matching colors and then doing quality control when I cull. I might need more pastures and manage 10 mares per stud to get the lines I want. Maybe starting with XP's and or B papers and red papered mares would help.

    It surprised me that a 5 percent boost didn't change the paper levels. Has anyone worked out their own ideas on how stallion papering works and wants to share?

  • I had a workable theory at one stage, not real numbers, but I just put a number value on it so it made sense to me, so say a 9.9 is a C, 10.0 is a B, 11.0 is a A, 12.0 is a Star. Comparisons seem to be a 4 point difference, so a 10.4 'B' would be superior to a 9.9 'C', but a 10.2 'B' wouldn't be. So in the case of your horse, his hidden breeding number could have been11.4, so when you added 5 he is now 11.9, so not quite a Star, but at 11.4 he would be superior to a 11 'A'. I've no idea what the real numbers are but I have a few bench mark stallions so I know which ones are close to a star, which ones are only 'just' an A or a better A etc. It's pretty rough, certainly not exact, and probably nothing like it really is, but it gives me a good idea where my stallions are sitting in quality! Oh also I suspect that the range for A is larger than the B range, but it might only seem that way because I start at low A's, but start at mid B's
    Post edited by Kintara at 2015-03-01 22:50:51

    image

    Breeding quality coloured sport ponies and cobs
    Hajinc - 145082
    HJ2 - 145
  • I got one! Admittedly out of the 8 foundations, two are exceptionals I think but still not a bad effort I thought! No boosts
    http://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=3168614

    image

    Breeding quality coloured sport ponies and cobs
    Hajinc - 145082
    HJ2 - 145
    Thanked by 1Redbud
  • Cool Kintara! Thanks :)
  • I finally got my first 4th gen star. However, he tested superior to two of my 4th gen A's and about as good as the other two.

    http://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=3187568

    All his foundie ancestors were either BBTS (same as exceptionally perfect), exceptional producers or 5% boosted.
    Post edited by Pagan at 2015-03-23 23:01:23

    image


    HJ1 - 30304
    Licensed for: Axiom Red, Axiom Green, HMGA2 Height Regulator, Dun Factor Promoter 2, Mushroom, Onyx, Splash M, Ice 2, Ice 4, Ice 6, Ice 18, Ice19, Ice 20, Chinchilla, Phantom Autumn, Phantom Diamond Sparkle, storm cloud
  • All my second gen studs are A's..... I have not bred any further than that ATM and will be breeding my first second gen studs next season. I was kind of expecting them to produce star sons... Will be interesting to see if they do!
  • You likely won't see your 2nd gen A stallions produce *Stars unless they are from exceptional or boosted lines and are bred to Blue mares from exceptional or boosted lines. However, if bred to Blue mares, a 4th gen *Star is certainly possible by an A stallion.

    Don't feel discouraged if you don't get a *Star by your boys 2nd gen boys, if you get superior sons you're still on the right track!
    Imation Stud ID# 2609
    Our Current Stallions | Our Current Sales
    Straws available upon request, reduced cost to breeders and owners of ancestors
    Thanked by 1Kintara
  • Thanks for the advice and encouragement Raina. I'm only using exceptional and boosted stock so glad I'm on the right track.
  • It's fine to use C and yellow papered foundation stock, in the newer era's that's all you can use. The original discussion here was how early you can expect to see the papers go up with non boosted stock. Realistically most people don't use boosted stock. But it does mean you can expect to see Stars sooner of course, although not much point if you don't have the quality of mares to put to them! It is however very satisfying to get those Stars eventually from the lower papered beginnings!
    Post edited by Kintara at 2015-03-26 16:56:31

    image

    Breeding quality coloured sport ponies and cobs
    Hajinc - 145082
    HJ2 - 145
  • Oh yes, I didn't mean for it to seem like you should only use boosted or the exceptional stock. Hope it didn't come across that way.

    About half of my stock is from regular C and Red papered foundations, whereas the other half is boosted and exceptional. Some of my best (and favorite) stallions are from normal foundation pairings. That said, most of my lines as they go into the 4th gen and higher are from a mix of regular and exceptional horses.

    I only meant that it is unlikely to see a *Star in the 3rd gen unless you're using only boosted or exceptional stock (in reply to Zzahra).
    Imation Stud ID# 2609
    Our Current Stallions | Our Current Sales
    Straws available upon request, reduced cost to breeders and owners of ancestors

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