HGG Community Forums

I'm pretty new as well and am much more active on HJ2 but I think most of the strategies are the same.

Always put everything through GA or SA (SMA if you upgrade to level 5) and SAT. For colts, geld anything not superior to the sire. For me, for C studs, only B (or better) colts are kept, for B studs only A's are kept. Here there are exceptional producers, so some foundations will paper B which renders my intuition somewhat less helpful, but the general idea is you want to breed for superior quality. Once you get to the point where you are breeding higher generations and looking at A colts with A sires, it gets harder. It seems getting a *Star colt from an A takes much more work than getting A from B or B from C, so what I do is compare the colt to his sire (using the Comparison Test) and if he is not higher quality he gets snipped. If you don't own the sire, you can compare to a reference stud. For example, I have been comparing 4th gen A's (so an A sired by an A) to 3rd gen A's (so an A sired by a B) and if the 4th gen is not better then the 3rd, he gets the snips.

Fillies are less straightforward. If they pass all their testing, then it comes down to is she a color that you want to breed for or would you rather snip her and keep her as a show horse? I struggle deciding how to cull mares based on papering so I'll let someone else weigh in.

Show stock can be tricky and I don't have a good strategy for that. Under the new showing system, most anything will turn a profit (in terms of points accumulated, not raw profit - I recommend reading this thread: http://www.huntandjump.com/forum.php#/discussion/1225/the-showing-system-will-be-getting-some-changes-discussion-post-/p1 ...it's the actual discussion thread before the system was fully thought through and implemented, but you can skim it for Ammit's posts to get an idea of how it works.) so IMO it comes down to can you fill that stall with a horse that will make more points? If so, cull. The best a foundation can score for PT is 9.9 (on HJ2, may be slightly higher here), so I think blanket culling any PTs lower than 9.9 seems a little too much for me. I think it depends on the generation. For foundations, I'd think twice about any *geldings/spayed mares* PTing lower than 9, and I would definitely cull if they PTed lower than 8 since there are plenty of better foundations to be had for cheap. But, I am still getting the hang of this as well so I'll be watching what more seasoned players say.

I would not cull *everything* that is B papered - you're not going to get A's or stars in a second generation cross too frequently.

I just try to see improvement over each generation. So if you have a C stallion, it's an improvement to get a B son. If that son produces an A....then you're totally on the right track.

And a lot of advice also depends on if you're trying to sell your stock. That's not a major money maker in this game, some people don't really sell much. (I can't remember the last time I sold anything.)

If you're not looking to sell or stand your stallions public, then lines and colors and what not don't really matter, you can do what you want. But if you are, then you have higher standards to meet.

People do prefer even generations. People also like seeing a goal in the pedigree. Like, it's all bays, or you are keeping splash throughout the generations or something like that. For example, if you breed two bays with tobiano and get a solid black stallion as a result, the horse's quality may be good, but most people would be unhappy with a solid black out of bay tobiano lines. The more patterns & genes a line has, the harder it is to do it "well". Plain blacks are much easier to breed for than silver classic champagne roan dun sabino splash....it's just the more that you add, the less likely all the "required" genes are to get passed down.

I'm not sure if that made sense or not, lol, please let me know if it didn't and I'll try again. Or maybe someone else will be able to clarify better.

I was about to post asking for similar advice so I'm really interested in reading all the replies.
Thanks for beating me too it Red Barn Farms!

The first few starting scores - disregard them. They don't have a whole lot of meaning in the long run.

The higher PT horses will train longer and harder...however...this also means it takes them longer to "settle down" and start making money. Very high PT horses can end up leveling up in such a way that they lose in the show ring for years before they hit their stride.

I would recommend a mix of PT's for a younger stable. The lower ones won't make as much or for as long, but they'll give you something a lot faster than the higher ones. Also work towards having a mix of ages. You won't have that right now starting off, but if you had a few show horses to your herd every year, then it won't take you too long to have a good wide mix. Mixed show strings are just more steady overall....when you have one generation & PT range slacking, you have another one stepping up and winning. (Hopefully)

Remember, no show horse wins all time time, so expect periods of win and lose.

I run everything through gelding advice, strict mare advice, showing advice, consistency testing and let them all spay/geld as they want. (I do PT testing too, but that doesn't geld/spay)

The ones that end up spayed or gelded become my show string. Horses that pass all of that, I put into my breeding program if they turned out to be what I want genetic wise. If they are missing genes that I "require" for that line, I'll spay/geld them and turn them into show horses myself.

Over time, your PT requirements will change as your stable grows and you can up your bottom limit a bit if you choose, but for a beginning stable, I think anything in the high 9's would be good enough for now. Kaquel was correct in that 9.9 is the highest any non-boosted foundation can go, and they were also correct in that you can pick foundations at that level off the sales board fairly easily.

@redbarnfarms The higher the PT score the better the shower. PT of 9.9 for an example can be the top of a class one day and the bottom the next. Horses with lower PT score will do better in shows at first then higher PT score horses. But after that boost the often go down with showing. (correct me if I am wrong experts)

I am not sure with show scores or how they exactly work.

I have learned for @Gael4ce no one can make the decision for you on what to exactly do with your horses. You play the game for you. There is no 100% way to please everybody. I would say after the foals have passed all of their tests that are current to you its up to you. My guess is as good as yours, plus I do not know what you desire to breed for. Personal I try and breed for black and white and Kit promoters.

Higher PT = better shower...no...that's way over simplified.

Any horse can be at the top of one class one day and the bottom of another the next - that happens when they level up. Higher PT horses level up faster and for longer, and that's far more likely to happen with them.

Higher PT means they train up faster and go farther. That doesn't mean they make you more money. They can lose a lot of money too because higher level classes cost more to enter. You have have a 10 that makes more money in a life time over the 13 just because the 13 never sat in a place where it was winning.

Lower PT's don't move up as fast, and top off sooner. They just stop gaining points sooner than higher PT's. However, if you're lucky, they top off at a spot where they are making money and they sit there for a while.

Some years ago I had a lowly 9.5 that earned me like 80k in it's lifetime. It just sat in a money earning place for a very long time.

This is why I prefer a mix of PT's and ages. :)

Those 3 foals you listed seem fine so far, it's only by breeding them you'll get an idea of their breeding quality. Their PT's don't really mean much this stage as far as breeding goes as it relates to showing, but if any of them are throwing quite a few foals under 10 PT, the mare may not be a good breeder. By breeding them to higher B gen2 stallions in era5 you'd be giving them their best chance at good foals!

I wouldn't cull breeding stock off of PT at all. PT only measures their showing skill. I just realized my earlier post really didn't spell this out - I was talking about show stock *only*, not breeding stock when I was talking about the value of PT. Just the spays and the geldings. :)

The whole point about a horse being good for breeding is that they produce horses better than they are themselves.

No, PT is a measure of the horse's showing ability. It is not directly related to the parent's PT score in any way.

The horses have two main sets of stats: showing ability and breeding ability. A good breeder will more likely to give you offspring that is better than it is. There is a random factor, just like in real life, two champions don't always produce champions. (But two champions are far more likely to produce another champion than two duds!)

Keep in mind the random factor *and* the fact these two stats are not tied to each other. A good breeder/lousy shower can produce a better breeder and a meh shower...meh being better than lousy. ;) But the meh showing stat gives you no clue how good of a breeder it is.

And, if you have a bit of bad luck, maybe the foal is no better than the parents, or even worse. Random factor. Just like reality.

In short, PT is not directly tied to breeding ability and is not a reliable way of determining breeding ability. Ideally, it'll rise with every generation, but that doesn't always happen and doesn't always mean the horse is "bad".

Regarding culling show stock:

It's really, really, really important to remember that the whole showing system got overhauled and your stable income is now more dependent upon accumulated showing points than it is on individual show results.

Once upon a time, the way to make money was to have horses that were constantly winning their shows. The ones that leveled out in the money part of a class and spent months there were cash cows, and it was a Really Good Idea to dump them if they then cycled out of that winning bracket.

NOW shows are super cheap to enter. I did the math once and the break-even point you need for a horse to profit even in 8W (which used to be uber competitive and really painful on the pocket book to lose) is SO low that there is almost no reason to worry about it anymore. (Let's see. It costs 70 hbs to enter 8W now; if you enter twice a week it's 140 hbs. Horses make... 50%? of their point value a week in profit, so in order to break even you'd need 280 points. At a quick glance, my 7 year old horses have earned that many points already and they're all showing in cheaper arenas.)

I had a whole essay once on why the secret to making money in this game was Having More Horses and since the change over of the showing system that is now so much more true than it was that I can't even begin to compare them. Your horses keep their show points forever, and the more show points they have, the more money they earn you... and it doesn't matter if they're geldings or stallions or mares or spays. Points = money.

I know it's really tempting to yum your horses when they don't appear to be making a profit for you, and that red negative number on their pages can be upsetting, but I absolutely 100% promise that almost any horse you breed will make you more money than it loses you if you hold onto it long enough; you just have to show it enough to get a few points racked up. Yes, that can take a while especially if you're unlucky with show placements and stuff, but H&J is a game with a lot of complexity and a need for an eye toward your long term strategy.