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In this Discussion
- annismyrph July 2020
- OopsDotCom July 2020
- SandyCreekAcres July 2020
- SherwoodStables July 2020
- Stone Silo Farm July 2020
- Taliesin July 2020
- WhiteValley July 2020
- WitchwaterAcres July 2020
Who's Online (3)
- bluchrystals 11:55AM
- GoldenSpur 11:55AM
- Haystack 11:55AM
Confused (which is nothing new) about a few things.
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1) "Breeding *Star papered stallion to *Gold papered mare will not always create a *Star/*Gold offspring. In fact, it could produce a much lower papered C offspring!" Why? The user guide says this, but there's no information on what affects this.
2) I only vaguely understand where the Daily Payout comes from. I thought it was something to do with the shows, but the shows are twice a week and daily is 7 times a week. Also, does the Daily Payout increase as the horse is trained? If not, why bother with a horse that has a very low Payout? I'm not handy enough with the spreadsheet program to track this. (Are there any free spreadsheet programs out there? What do you use?) (There's another post on the forum about the DP and age, but doesn't say if it relates to training, or if it goes up, then down.)
3) Does breeding an Exceptional Show to an Ex Producer produce a better showing foal than breeding a regular horse to the same Ex Producer? ("regular" as in not another Ex Producer.)
4) Testing horses can get costly. Why does the value of the horse not increase? ie unless the horse is special somehow, people/the auction still only want to pay 2,500 hb.
5) Once you have a license for a gene, what does that allow you to do that just buying another one when it comes up on the Upgrades?Post edited by OopsDotCom at 2020-07-20 14:36:15 -
Easiest way I can think of to explain
#1 ; if you bred Secretariat to Zenyatta ; they wont all be as good as either of them and in fact ; on both of them it was proven not many of the foals raced half as well as either parent
#2 Daily payout is the HB amount of any horse divided by 18 months divided by 7 days ; when the horse "trains" it gains HB's to its daily payout ; when a horse shows it gains lvls and a higher over all payout ( I might be wrong about this but its the closest thing I ve figured out )
#3 No ; showing and breeding are 2 different things ( refer back to #1 )
#4 its only costs 2500 to CREATE the horse ; any testing you are doing is to improve your herd and like feed the better the quality the better for them ; sometimes in testing you "find" that special gene ( SnowFlake or DP or Sty ) and that's what drives the price up ( right now anyway )
Thanked by 1OopsDotCom -
Buying a gene from the roving gene sale and getting the license for it that way allows you to breed with that gene. I don't own the Onyx gene license, so I can't breed or buy unaltered Onyx horses. I own the mushroom license, so I can buy any mushroom horse or straw I want.Formerly OscarWildin
267111Thanked by 1OopsDotCom -
1: A horse's breeding potential and its showing potential are separate stats. Take a read through https://www.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/35511 and it will explain in exhaustive detail.
2: Daily payout comes from the total points all of the horses you own have earned. That score doesn't go up with training, but it does go up with showing. The more horses you have showing regularly the more money you get paid every day.
3: See #1
4: See previous posters -
ConfluenceStable has a pinned post which includes a lot of good info! The first post is all about showing & payout.
https://www.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/31645/basic-information-for-new-players#Item_15
Ask as many questions as you need, this is a complicated game! It generally takes several months of playing a lot to get a good grip on everything. And people who've been here for years will still learn something new sometimes!Thanked by 1OopsDotCom -
Yes and I'm loving it. I do read the help articles, if something confuses me, I ask. Sometimes I don't get very useful answers, though :(
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I'm sorry you don't always get useful answers. We do try to help out new players as much as possible but this is a very complicated game and sometimes the answers can be quite complex! When asking a question try to be as clear as possible about what you are asking. Splitting the question into separate parts can help. Also the posting rules at the bottom help all of us to understand what people are writing, some people do not have English as their first language which is why we are asked to use proper spelling and grammar as much as possible. Finally, if you don't find that a post has been useful in answering your question, then ask for clarification, someone is sure to be along who will do their best to explain it in a different way. :)
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Thank you for reminding me about the grammar.
I'm beginning to think "Oops" is an appropriate name :>
And yes, when a couple of people explain, it clarifies things better.
I appreciate the pointers to Confluence explanations, I haven't quite got the hang of finding things in there yet.
I keep going to the faqs and scrolling through the other pages in the manual, trying to find what I want to know, but a lot of times, I'm not even sure what the title would be. For example, I can't find an explanation of This herd helper triggers the following primary herd helpers..." yet. -
1. Horses have a range of quality in the foals they can produce, both in showing ability and in breeding ability. Each horse can produce foals ranging from better then themselves, as breeders (again, the parent's showing ability is irrelevant), to much worse. The higher a horse's breeding score, the higher that range goes, but it does not mean they won't still occasionally produce much worse foals. I don't think we know when and how much the bottom of the range raises as the breeding score increases. In my experience, getting a C papered horse from a Star/Gold pair is pretty rare, but, like most, I don't bother to paper most of my snips (though it's free to do so), and a horse like that would definitely fail BA
Also, a note - that post that Silo linked seems useful in mechanics, but the descriptions of testing are outdated. Some of those tests don't exist anymore, and it sounds like this is from before papering could be done with no foals on the ground
2. The Daily Payout process:
-When a horse enters a show, they earn points based on how they place in the class. The higher they place, the more points they get. These points are theirs to keep, and they collect them over time.
-Training increases a horse's show score - how well they do - which moves them up the places in the class, which means they earn more points per show. Improving enough to move to a higher class means that they may be at the bottom of the class for a while again, but until they level off they will keep improving.
-Those points are translated into daily payout. I don't remember the exact calculations, but the more total points all of your horses have, the higher your daily payout will be.
- A horse's estimated lifetime payout is their daily payout multiplied by the number of days between now and the monthly rollover when they age from 17 to 18 and have a chance of aging out. If they're already 18, then it's the days until next rollover, when they have a chance of aging out. Basically, how much they will earn you if they earn no more points and age out at the soonest possible rollover.
- A horse's daily payout only increases, and will keep increasing until they level off, and then it depends on where they level off. The unlucky ones who happen to level off at the bottom of the class they're currently in will not earn many, if any, more points, and their daily payout won't increase. These are the horses that people auction after ten years old, because then you get the entire lifetime payout and open a stall, and you probably wouldn't get much more by holding on to them and collecting their daily payout until they age out. A horse who levels off at the top of the class, however, will keep earning points because they're placing well, and that means their daily payout will continue to increase. You get more from these over time by keeping them and collecting the daily payout than you would by auctioning them.
- A horse with no points (and only creates from new players start out with points, lined foals and creates from everyone else start with no points) will earn points as they go, so yes they're worth keeping (depending on the rest of the factors, obviously). I keep all my snips with a PT score of 11 and above, because they gather points for longer and tend to end up with more. I see plenty of horses start with 0 points as a new foal and end up at over a thousand.
The only free spreadsheet I can think of is Google Sheets, if you have a google account. I don't usually make spreadsheets, though, so maybe there's something better out there that I don't know about.
3. No. An Exceptional Show horse has no particular boost to their breeding ability score, just their show score, so they could be anywhere in the same range of breeding scores as a 'regular' foundation. They might be a good foundation breeder, they might not. BA/SBA will help you determine this
4. Because there is roughly a metric poop-ton of horses in the game. Seriously, as of this exact moment there are 1,166,056 living horses on this server. You don't make money selling horses. I frequently sell horses at a loss, especially lab babies, that cost me at least 9,500 hbs each just to make. They just aren't worth that much to other people when there is undoubtedly something 'better' - by whatever metric that player is using - out there for less. This is why points are so important. The money to breed and then test your foals has to come from somewhere, and it ain't gonna be horse sales
5. A gene license allows you to A. own intact horses with that gene B. breed horses with that gene C. buy intact horses with that gene from other players and D. buy straws and eggs from horses with that gene, or breed to horses up for stud with that geneSpiderweb Stables
ID Number: 238452
He/Him pronounsThanked by 1OopsDotCom -
That sentence basically translates in simpler terms to "Pretzel Twist (the herd helper) triggers (or turns those specific genes on, or awakens them) the following primary herd helpers (or specific in-game names for genes that are applied to a horse when you use a herd helper such as heterozygous Appaloosa, which just means you FOR SURE are getting one copy of Appaloosa with no promise of a second one, but it's not out of the question). Basically the trigger just signifies that those specific genes will always be included on a horse you create using that formula. It "wakes up" that combination of herd helpers. Since a lot of the Rank Special HHs are combinations of lower ranked HHs you can get from the Daily Herd Helper rerolls, they trigger or turn on a combo of those lower ranking ones that all combine into something a little more predictable since you know what more of the genes you're getting are.
Let me know if you want me to clarify anything in that, I may have been talking in circles a little bitFormerly OscarWildin
267111Thanked by 1OopsDotCom -
Actually, Oscar, you explained that very clearly, I understood you easily. I always have been wondering why the specials have such a long list of genes, and why some of them look only like ordinary horses. Thank you.
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An explanation of "This herd helper triggers the following primary herd helpers..."
Each Herd Helper, as I'm sure you realize, endows certain traits (genes or ability scores) on a create. The primary herd helpers listed are those individual genes or scores. And you make a fancier herd helper by stacking them together. Rank Specials can be made up of several of these to create an overall specific effect. That's how the computer processes them, so that's what a Rank Special 'is'. If you read them in order from the beginning, they will tell you exactly what the herd helper does.
These aren't always really 'level 1' herd helpers, or whatever, though. A Bronze Age, for instance, is made by taking a Baroque (homozygous pearl and heterozygous DP and Perfect Foundation) and adding Brindle Breakout (making them brindle) Exceptionally Perfect (overwriting the Perfect Foundation and making them exceptional instead) and Heterozygous Non-Dun 1
You need to read them in order, because a later one in the list will overwrite an earlier one. Taco Town, for example, says Homozygous Tobiano, then later Heterozygous Sabino 1. Both these genes are on the same location, so that means that sabino will overwrite one of the tobianos and you'll end up with het tobiano and het sabinoSpiderweb Stables
ID Number: 238452
He/Him pronouns -
Actually, You all have written those posts well enough that they make sense to me. I'll have to re read them a few times to remember them, though. Thanks!
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Don't forget that some of us (like me!) have been playing this game for years and have, therefore, learned how things work over time. In addition, Ammit has constantly refined and enhanced the game, particularly in keeping abreast of the latest research in genetics. This has lead to a highly complex game and it is not possible to pick everything up really quickly. Even those of us who have been playing for a while have to get to grips with the new stuff. I know I had to read Ammit's explanation of the new chimera gene several times, and look at examples on the horses' pages, before I felt I understood this new aspect of the game. The important thing is that you seem to be enjoying the game and you know that there is always someone around to help you out if you are confused. Happy addictive playing! :)
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No kidding addictive. Sometimes when I'm trying to figure things out I see the sun rise. I joined the game a while back, spent a couple of years, then sort of gave up. I was winning enough to be making income, but I don't know how I managed it because I didn't have a clue what I was doing. I was breeding high PT to high PT, for example, and as for the Ex Pros, many just became show horses because I didn't really have a clue what to do with them. I was winning, but not having fun.
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if a game isn't fun then why play it ? if you love short chonky pink ponies ; breed for THEM , if you like tall skinny black horses ; breed for those ; there is no win or loose ; just enjoy the pretty pixels on your screen
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Keep on playing and keep on asking questions. (ConfluenceStable says "The only dumb question is the one you don't ask.") The more you do these things the more you will learn about horse color genetics AND about how all kinds of genetics do their work. Eventually, you, too, can become an expert. :)
That's what this game is all about.
I first ran across an ad for this game in 2010 and read the rules. (Not the ins and outs of the game, just the rules.) I felt rather intimidated, but I knew that my daughter (who has a Bachelor's Degree in Biology) had always loved her genetics classes in high school and college, so I pointed it out to her. She started playing right away, and I sat behind her and watched over her shoulder while she played for 8 months. Then I felt comfortable enough to start my own account and have never looked back. Now my greatest joy in the game is helping new players understand it too.
So, you see, it's possible to learn how to play this game, even at the advanced age of 64-65 with an education that focused on languages and literature, not science. :D