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In this Discussion
- Ammit March 2022
- annismyrph March 2022
- CrowsnestRidge March 2022
- Fiddler March 2022
Who's Online (2)
- GoldenSpur 9:51PM
- Pagan 9:51PM
breeding vs papers?
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I bought a gold mare, thinking she would improve my breeding program. I had her tested and she got spayed! So she's not good for breeding?
I thought that was the point of being papered to Gold level.
thanks all, for your help.
Fiddling wild thing -
For Future reference ; if a horse is ever labeled ( untested ) on its home page ; they have not been tested. Some of the higher leveled mares dont get tested because as the generations go up it becomes exponentially more difficult to get foals to pass Breeding Advice.
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annismyrph, so if i buy a fancy mare, don't get her tested?
it seemed to defeat the whole point, you know, get a good mare to improve your gene pool only to be told she shouldn't reproduce? I'm confused. -
The paper tells you the raw quality of a horse. Breeding advice tells you how they compare to their parents. This mare is gold quality she just is not great quality compared to her parents.Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/herThanked by 1Fiddler -
@mimitabby ; your safest bet is to buy horses that have been tested. Unless you have a star stallion breeding a gold mare wont help your herd get better faster unfortunately. A lot ( all though not every one ) breeds "evenly" ie: a red papered foundation mare to a b papered foundation stallion ( or a C/ Yellow cross ) and then tests and papers from there. so 2nd generation would also be bred to 2nd generation and evenly papered horses ( again red/B or Blue / A) The mare above has at least 6 if not more generations behind her when you look at her pedigree. I didn't dig back to see when / if the testing was stopped, or beyond 6 gens, but if you were to breed her to anything but a lined Star stallion with a similar number of generations behind him, chances are the foal would not have passed, because the filly would not have been "as good as " the mare, the colt may have given how high the mare is but maybe not. Sorry. Given her PT score she ll be a decent show horse :) so I would hang on to her for that. What are you breeding for ? Maybe some of us can help :)
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I really love dark horses, and would like to breed horses that can win. How's that sound?
Although the leopards are awesome too! what you wrote really helped. -
I bought a mare with all those papers (generations) because I thought it would beef up my stock!
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Uneven breeding or bootstrapping can help raise foal PT faster than even breeding, but a key part of that process is not testing aside fromcomparison testing because the foal is highly unlikely to be better than both parents and this is what testing assesses. A foundation horse with yellow/c or red/b papers bred to a 6th generation gold/star papered horse likely will not have any offspring that can be even as good as that 6th gen horse. But odds are the foal will be better than the foundation parent.
That said, even breeding can also produce high quality foals, it just tends to not be as fast. But there are lots of testing options and a lot of people only even breed since the pedigree looks nicer and it’s a little easier to tell how the quality of your horses is improving.
I’d say think about whether you want to start out bootstrapping or even breeding. Both approaches can produce foals who do very well in shows and get a lot of earnings (higher PT horses do compete in higher level shows but they might not win those shows. A lower PT horse that consistently wins lower level shows can actually make you more hbs than a high PT horse that isn’t doing well in its class). Of course the highest PT horses do get on the leaderboards and when they consistently win, they have the best earnings.
Once you decide your approach, you know whether to get all foundations to start with and test, or if you want to mix in some higher generation horses and only comparison test.
If you do decide to go with even breeding, let me know! I’ve got a couple black appaloosas that I’m happy to share straws or put up for breeding, but they certainly aren’t right for bootstrapping.ID #265959 | He/him | Breeding Black Satin, Liver, and Grullo Arcturus Horses | Licenses: Mushroom, DFP2, Onyx, Axiom Blue and Green -
@mimitabby ; I think you might be confusing papers vs generations; you can have a 6th generation Red papered mare ; she will still be 6th generation but she wont be "gold" she ll be Red papered ; just because a horse is 6 or 16 generations doesnt mean she is automatically better than a past generation of her bloodline ; this is why Comp Testing and Breeding Advice is so highly recommended. Even if both mom and daughter are gold papered doesnt necessarily make the daughter better. Comp testing can tell you if she is "worse" , "as good as" or "better". Breeding Advice or SBA will tell you if she is better as a show horse ( which over time generally outperforms and thus earns more than a breeder ) or a Breeding Horse. Also am not sure what you mean by "win" ? Win every class entered? very very few will do that, even in real life they will have an off day and not win ; as long as the horse earns more than it costs to show it and can support at least 1 additional breeding horse ; they are worth keeping. A good rule of thumb is to have at least 2 if not 3 show horses for every breeding horse you have.Thanked by 1Fiddler
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thank you Annismyrph and Crowsnestridge for your sage advice. It's a lot to take in and to be honest, I don't know which way I'm going (I've been at this for almost a week now!). I think I'll know more past mid month, where the mares and stallions I've lined up produce and then I'll have an idea of how bad my ideas are.
thanks again -
No worries! I definitely experimented a lot when I was new before I figured out what worked for me and I found to be fun. Best of luck with your breeding!ID #265959 | He/him | Breeding Black Satin, Liver, and Grullo Arcturus Horses | Licenses: Mushroom, DFP2, Onyx, Axiom Blue and GreenThanked by 1Fiddler