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Does anyone have a couple nice VOS stallions for sale? Only 1 untested stallion came up when I searched.

Wouldn't the stud be 100% foundation and the mares as well?

How does this fit in with so many being snipped? I think I'm missing something.

Yes, I did get some. I was going to ask about that separately, but since you brought it up, I might as well ask here lol. It's the lethal white, isn't it? How do I tell which foal came from which stud, and which pair might be problems. I have a vague idea, I've seen that chart Ammit prepared, but I'm not sure how to utilize it when selecting which horses to breed and which not.

Yep, homozygous frame is always lethal (except on the Freaky Friday herd helper or when it's GMTed on a horse), so breeding two frame carriers is pretty risky. I usually make a point of just not breeding stallions with frame to avoid any accidental lethal foals.

The risk of other white genes isn't as cut and dry since it takes white factor into consideration as well. Some crosses are certainly more risky than others, as shown on Ammit's chart, but the risky crosses aren't certain death even if the foal happens to inherit the white from both parents, as long as the white factor is low enough that it doesn't express. Vault of Stars also carry White 2 which is a pretty high risk for lethal white. To check for how lethal a gene is on the chart, just use it like a multiplication table. Look at the genes along the side for one parent, and the genes along the top for the other parent, and follow the row and column for each to see where they intersect. If the color where the two intersect is orange or red or dark red, that's a high risk for a lethal foal.

Yes, you could remove the frame and the White 2 from a GMTable stallion. But it would be a bit expensive. I think I'd just make a point of breeding the VoS mares to another perfect foundation or rank special that naturally doesn't carry lethal genes. Personally, I think Silver Pocket Watch makes a wonderful cross with Vault of Stars.

Getting show foals is not bad and does not make a bad stud. He probably just passed you a bunch of good showers. Its a luck of the draw sometimes with how many foals pass breeding advice. Some years you get a lot of colts, some a lot of mares. Your are doing a good thing by breeding him to similar mares.

You can try him on mares with just Splash or Tobiano to keep a high level of white pattern wuthout the frame.

Well, Please share your thinking. I'm buying a couple stallions, one of the problems is I only had 1, so no way to compare himself to any. I bought a second one and got the same results, but not a wide enough range of mares to give me a valid assessment.

Foundations are easy since you know automatically perfect foundations are all 100% breeding ability and exceptional producers are 105% breeding ability. So long as you breed the same level horses together your mares and stallion are on the same level. If you are breeding the perfect foundations together and have several fail it’s just bad luck. Some seasons are worse than others.

When you move up the generations that’s when the mares ability and the stallions comes into play. You have to rely on paper levels and comparisons testing to try to keep the stallions and mares on a similar breeding level.

Yes, Silverstar is correct. I never counted how many foals I breed every year, well over 1000 now. However, my foundations give me more that pass SBA because they are equal quality mares and studs (all exceptional producers). Each generation is harder for me to get intact foals. I geld and spay even more because they didn't carry the genes I want. It isn't because my stock is poor, I breed for quality,

We all celebrate when foals pass SBA because they are special. It isnt supposed to happen every time. Same in the real world - lots of not breeding worthy horses out there, and some stellar special ones that carry on bloodlines.

I know there is a graphic out there that Confluence did of how similar breeding abilities work better.... I just don't have the thread.

i had the same issue. all of my pasture foals (nine) got snipped.

@CollegeSucks your Pasture stud is much higher quality than your mares. Breeding Advice will always snip those. If you are trying to bootstrap, you can't use breeding advice.

Check out the link Anni provided - explains how breeding ability/paper levels work for sire and dam and how foals pass breeding advice.

@OopsDotCom ; in CollegeSucks case ; they are using *StarPapered Studs with Red Papered ( and Foundation ) mares ; Basically they are bootsrapping, which is a smart way to build a ShowHerd; however 99% of those foals will get snipped because the father is linebred ( About 20) generations in the case of LG Burnt by Sage being bred to Foundation / Red Papered Mares. If there is room to keep those foals I would, as a really solid start to a show herd. Otherwise yes breeding similar papers and generations is correct to get the most breedable foals from your pastures. Also leaving your mares in pasture for a full month helps keep the foals intact.

There’s a saying in the real life horse breeding world that is pretty accurate for the game as well. It goes something like, “Even if you do everything right, horse breeding is a cr*pshoot!” :D

Bootstrapping gets you show foals with higher PTs faster than even breeding.

If you wanted some foals with high PTs, breed some mares to a Star stud who is producing foals with PTs > 12. You geld the colts to show and breed the fillies back to the high PT stud or another high PT stud. Then repeat. Breeding advice will alter them all.

High PT show horses move up the show levels faster, some earn points well, others are unlucky until they plateau in a good spot.