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In this Discussion
- annismyrph July 2022
- CrowsnestRidge July 2022
- Fiddler July 2022
- Forestshadow July 2022
- lecobb8 July 2022
- MackZ July 2022
- Starstruck2 July 2022
- Wingedeagle July 2022
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- Haystack 9:50AM
Are all foundations of the same paper level equally good breeders?
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I don't really have room to do this experiment, but here's what I'm wondering:
If I try to search my foundations for average foal PT, I'm only getting the average of the ones that didn't get snipped. It's unclear to me if that mare had 2 foals and both were great, 10 foals and 1 was great, or 5 foals with some that didn't get snipped, but didn't meet my cull criteria.
Now maybe that's all a moot point, because I'm still only comparing mares who had good enough foals to keep, but it made me wonder if all Red papered mares have exactly the same breeding ability?
Or if not, is there a way I should be weeding out my best producing foundies?Thanked by 1Fiddler -
good question
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IMO ; mares and stallions Breedability varies with each breeding ; just becuase you and your siblings have the same parents doesnt mean you will All excel in the same things ; my one brother is an accountant , i went into the Veterinary field ( sciences ) and my baby brother is a beach volleyball coach for UH ; on the beach living the good life ( LOL ). He probably makes more money than I do , but it would bore me to tears so there is that. Foals are the same, you can breed a mare back to the same stallion and get something completely different each time.
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Indeed. In real life, Barbaro would be a great example of having several full siblings from the same sire and dam and all the foals had varying levels of talent with Barbaro being the best.
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Each paper level covers a certain range of breeding ability. Each horse's personal breeding ability is a hidden number percentage. For example, a horse with perfect breeding ability(i.e. a foundation create from certain herd helpers, such as most Rank specials) have a breeding ability of 100%. An Exceptionally Perfect herd helper gives your horse a breeding ability of 105%. So, C/Yellow covers up to 100% breeding ability, B/Red is something like 100.5%-110%, and so on. I'll have to see if I can find the original post that explains this better. If I find it, I'll link it below.
When you breed two horses together, you get a foal that lands somewhere in their combined range of ability. That combined range can land the foal anywhere from inferior to superior to both parents. Similar breeding ability in the parents increases your chance of breeding a superior foal. Someone made a super helpful info graphic about this, and I will link it as soon as I find it.
Here's a post by @ConfluenceStable that gives some helpful information about breeding ability: https://www.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/43811/pt-scores-showing-vs-breeding-a-bit-old-but-good-info
This one has the super helful info graphics: https://www.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/44710/mind-the-gap-______-another-picture-guide-Post edited by MackZ at 2022-07-26 14:07:01Might be addicted to pixel ponies...
Licensed for mu, DFP2, SWM, ONX, TMJB, TMSG, PBP, PBC, PBW, VOID, CHN, PLT, DMSP, LACE, JLYF, PDL, ROS, BOU, ATM, WEB, CRT, HRT, SUN, STAR, SHM, all Axioms, all Ices.
ID 276208Thanked by 1OrionsStables -
So will comparison testing my foundations against each other show me anything? I'm not sure how "sensitive" that testing is.
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the specific question was about foundation horses. I know for example that if i get an exceptionally perfect mare, she's going to be Red Papered and her PT will be the same 10.4, right, as the other exceptionally perfect mares I have.
So from that, they do look equally endowed, and that's what @lecobb8888 was asking about. But are you saying that within these parameters, there will still be some differences in breedability or show ability, even though they are all, in this case, Red and 10.4? -
All I know is that papers are a range as @MackZ said. So two different red papered horses could definitely have different breeding ability.
However, since you’re asking about foundations, I think the only red papered foundations come from the exceptionally perfect or exceptional producer herd helpers. I don’t know if there is any difference between the two types (aside from PT).
I do know that all exceptionally perfect foundations always have a 10.4 PT score, so it’s possible their breeding score is also identical. If not, I think their score would be more similar than non-exper/expro creates would have since there is less randomness.
I don’t comparison test my foundations, but I suspect they would all test AGA because that category includes a range of horses too. I’ve had a B stallion test AGA an A stallion and so on. I mostly just select foundations for their genes, use Red papers and comparison test all subsequent generations.
Curious to see if someone else has done more testing or knows more!Post edited by CrowsnestRidge at 2022-07-26 22:29:34ID #265959 | He/him | Breeding Black Satin, Liver, and Grullo Arcturus Horses | Licenses: Mushroom, DFP2, Onyx, Axiom Blue and Green -
ok I've been looking at Exceptional Producers, and while they appear to all be red, their PT scores are all over the map, from zero to 10s.
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PT isn't the same as breeding ability though. I'm pretty sure that there is some variation in breeding ability just from my own observations.
I have had horses with crazy low pt that produce wellStarstruck2 on Bluegrass and Forest
Betony707 on Forest & MesaThanked by 1Fiddler -
@Fiddler PT stands for Performance Test. All it means is how old the horse will be before it “levels off” or stops learning during weekly training. That score is not connected to how good the foals from the horse will be. For an indication of that look at the Breeding Inspection or paper level. But every horse regardless of paper level has a range of quality they can pass on. And just like color, the quality of a foal is a combined inheritance from both parents.
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@wingedeagle, I was just pointed out that all Foundation Ex Producers are not the same...