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CheshireFarms · Nov 15, 2023 10:27 AM

See Link Here: https://wiki.huntandjump.com/books/all-about-appaloosas-wip

So I'm working on putting together information that is known, has been shared on the forum, or is a theory in the game. If you have any suggestions about formatting (like adding a topic, breaking down a topic, ect) please feel free to post about it here.

Eventually I want to also add articles about Breeding programs, selecting for certain traits, ect.

Sorry for the rush post, I'm fleeing the house in 3 minutes lol. Will try to fine tune this when I get home.

Nightphoenix · Nov 15, 2023 10:58 AM

Let me know if you need any help!

CheshireFarms · Nov 16, 2023 10:23 AM

Just going to post questions here as I get them and hope that the community has answers so I don't have to bug Ammit so much lol.

1. Does HOM LP cause a horse to Varnish faster than HET LP (ignoring other genes and assuming both horses are the same base color)

CheshireFarms · Nov 16, 2023 10:42 AM

Lets talk Appaloosa Bronzing.

E13 CF Little Awkward EV

So I filtered my horses out, and of the 280 non-Chestnut HET Appies with no other dilutions, I only found this one with slightly lighter mane and tail

Is it rare? Is it conditional?

I have appies that are cream, dun, roan, or have agouti promoter and they have light manes and tails, but it looks like those genes are the cause of it, or heighten it.

Thoughts?

Ammit · Nov 16, 2023 10:50 AM

the less dense the pigment is on a horse the more they will bronze.

CheshireFarms · Nov 16, 2023 11:14 AM

Updated Bronzing, the only things left on this page is clarifications on LP Promoter and hidden Pattern genes

https://wiki.huntandjump.com/books/all-about-appaloosas-wip/page/intro-to-appaloosa-genetics

I seem to recall @Ammit mentioning something about the hidden pattern genes. We kept calling it PATN2 on the forum, but it not really one gene, but a series of micro adjustments or something like that, which control the blanket size?

It's hard for me to pin point how it's supposed to look when I have HET PATN1 horses with no other genes, having blanket expressions from hip blankets to up to the withers.

These horses are all HET LP and PATN1/- and don't "test" for PATN2. They also don't have any LP Promoters.

Ignore all the GMT altering on the Black one, I was using her for wiki pictures the other day.

Nightphoenix · Nov 16, 2023 12:37 PM

I don’t know exactly what genes are coded into the game, but I know that geneticists have determined that there are multiple leopard complex genes affecting pattern that have not yet been identified.

LP is one of the most complicated pattern genes because the amount of connected genes is so massive, hence why it’s called the leopard complex. We still don’t know all the details about it and probably won’t for at least several more years.

One copy of PATN1 typically creates a blanket like the example horses you linked. Two copies of PATN1 typically create the full body leopard pattern.

CheshireFarms · Nov 16, 2023 4:51 PM

Yeah I'm pretty current on RL genetics, and sometimes that's the problem I have with separating RL and Game when explaining things. For the sake of this wiki, I only want to do things that apply to the game. Less confusion for people and what they can expect.

MistyMeadowFarm · Nov 16, 2023 6:02 PM

Following! I adore Appaloosas and learning more about the genetics and what they do/don't do sounds awesome! :)

MistyMeadowFarm · Nov 16, 2023 6:03 PM

I can share some of my Appaloosas and their genetics if that could help! xx

CheshireFarms · Nov 16, 2023 11:34 PM

@MistyMeadowFarm thank you, feel free to post anything you'd like to share. Not sure if I'd use it, but who knows what it will inspire!

CheshireFarms · Nov 16, 2023 11:40 PM

Does HOM LP influence Snowflake is rate of varnishing or size at all?

Does HOM LP cause a horse to normal varnish any faster?

Cavalynn · Nov 17, 2023 12:51 AM

Just from browsing through my horses, I don't think hom LP has any greater effect on varnish. It's fully dominant, so it's either there and showing or it isn't there. I'll dig through and check a few of my horses in the GMT lab tomorrow for what varnish promoter they carry so I can compare het LP to hom LP of the same ages and see if there's any difference at all.

MistyMeadowFarm · Nov 17, 2023 5:48 AM

Here's some of my Het PATN1 horses! I hope they can help :)

Het LP. Het PATN1. Hom snow Hom M

Snow 16807156

Hom LP. Het PATN1. Hom snow. Het ASR1

Snow 18335965

Hom LP. Het PATN1. Het snow. Hom KP. Het w20.

Snow 18198448

Het LP. Het PATN1. Het snow. Het KP.

Snow 18421800

Hom LP. Het PATN1. Hom snow. Het H. Het KP.

snow 18421812

Hom LP. Het PATN1. Hom snow. Het H.

Snow 18510170

Het LP. Het PATN1. Het snow. Het KP.

Snow 18548408

CheshireFarms · Nov 17, 2023 9:01 AM

@Cavalynn thanks for the feed back. Some of these things it's hard to tell because it's related to age, and the foundations I made are young lol

Hoping to start uploading photos this weekend.

CheshireFarms · Nov 17, 2023 9:04 AM

@MistyMeadowFarm thanks for your input, I'm not sure I can use them because we don't know what their hidden genes are, but I'll keep them in mind. Since I'm still writing the article, I don't know what might come up. Maybe I'll use them for the cover image!

Ammit · Nov 17, 2023 9:39 AM

Does HOM LP influence Snowflake is rate of varnishing or size at all?

Does HOM LP cause a horse to normal varnish any faster?

I am 95% sure the answer is no to both of these.

Cavalynn · Nov 17, 2023 11:10 AM

This is a hom varnish promoter, hom snowflake 5 yo mare who started with het LP. I regenerated her, saved the picture, and then GMTed her to hom LP, and there was zero change to her appearance.

4G Janx 18130872 Sort

Cavalynn · Nov 17, 2023 11:45 AM

I just remembered, a while back I posted this series of images of snowflake spots getting less intense with less varnish promoter as I GMTed this mare:

Hom varnish:

Het varnish:

No varnish:

Here's the original comment:

https://www.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/comment/414413#Comment_414413

CheshireFarms · Nov 17, 2023 12:58 PM

Thanks Cava, I had them saved as well thank you.

Ammit · Nov 17, 2023 1:15 PM

let me know if you need any GMT refunds to cover the costs of example images you are making

CheshireFarms · Nov 17, 2023 3:34 PM

@Ammit will do, thankfully with the return system I shouldn't loose many.

Kattalakis · Nov 17, 2023 4:04 PM

I can't wait to see this all done. It'll help when I go to breed more. Right now I mostly throw together similar looking markings and hope they carry on lol.

CheshireFarms · Nov 18, 2023 8:26 AM

Aside from providing details on LPP1, LPP2 and the theoretical PATN2 I think this page is fleshed out

https://wiki.huntandjump.com/books/all-about-appaloosas-wip/page/intro-to-appaloosa-genetics

Any suggestions?

CheshireFarms · Nov 18, 2023 10:10 AM

So I don't know why I thought PATN1 would be larger. But in sorting my horses, it's beginning to look like this is the standard expression for HET PATN1, and then LPP1, LPP2 and the wild factor of "PATN2" makes the blanket larger.

Thoughts or observations on this?

Nightphoenix · Nov 18, 2023 10:53 AM

That’s totally normal expression for het PATN1. There’s lots of genes in the leopard complex that we don’t know about yet so expression isn’t always consistent.

CheshireFarms · Nov 18, 2023 5:31 PM

Been working on some more stuff for the wiki

MistyMeadowFarm · Nov 19, 2023 5:33 PM

@CheshireFarms I went through the ones I sent and looked up their hidden genes! Here's the updated list :) I added the LPP gene info in their public notes :)

lecobb8 · Nov 21, 2023 7:45 AM

Can you explain a little more what you did to get this to pop up? I'm curious to check some of my appies for hidden genes, but not sure how to go about it.

lecobb8 · Nov 21, 2023 7:48 AM

Side note - what is giving this gal the weird blotches on the belly and shoulder? Does W20 amplify LP?

2R 15 Helpful Customers

LP/LP, -/PATN1, no Vrn, -/LPP1, -/W20

Also, for Era 15, I bred appies (mostly hom snow) and GMT'd Vrn off of everything, and LPP2 off of lots. So if you need a pretty sizeable "control population" to look through, I'm happy to look for specific gene combos I have to check their hidden genes if you need anything.

CheshireFarms · Nov 21, 2023 8:04 AM

@lecobb I was checking the (-) pattern allele and noticed a different message popped up. Not everyone has it.

I don't THINK the kit alleles interact with appaloosa. But I can run a test. Ammit didn't correct me when she read that page where I said they didn't interact.

Looks like a blotchy blanket. You have the normal hip blanket of het PATN1, and then LPP1 extended it further, but in patches.

CheshireFarms · Nov 26, 2023 8:14 PM

https://wiki.huntandjump.com/books/all-about-appaloosas-wip/page/how-do-appaloosa-genes-work-together

I think this section is done. It should include most interactions within the Appaloosa Genes, but please let me know if I'm missing something, or if I should expand on something.

There are also 3 studies with lots of photos for examples:
Study #1: PATN1 + LPP1/LPP2 - https://wiki.huntandjump.com/books/all-about-appaloosas-wip/page/study-1-patn1-lpp1lpp2

Study #2: Appaloosa + Halo - https://wiki.huntandjump.com/books/all-about-appaloosas-wip/page/study-2-appaloosa-halo

Study #3: Appaloosa Spot Regulator (ASR1) - https://wiki.huntandjump.com/books/all-about-appaloosas-wip/page/study-3-appaloosa-spot-regulator-asr1

If you'd like to see some other studies, please let me know.

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