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In this Discussion
- Ammit July 2024
- annismyrph July 2024
- Cavalynn July 2024
- CheshireFarms July 2024
- Fiddler July 2024
- GoldenHeartAcres July 2024
- OopsDotCom July 2024
- paradoxphoenix July 2024
Who's Online (3)
- annismyrph 1:07PM
- Fiddler 1:07PM
- Haystack 1:07PM
A question about maxing
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I have a few Gen10 fillies testing SUP to Dam, however all of the colts are testing AGA to sire and have passed SBA, even after I max them.. is this where the cap is and I have to boost them to get them better? Would I need to max/boost all the foals after gen 10 to get them to pass SBA?
Kinda confused by this stuff, sorry.
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Sounds like you have mare lag and your mares are much worse than your stallions.
You can hit cap as early as gen 7 but just because you can does not mean your horses are at cap. Your foals can not be at cap because if they were they would be passing SBA.Post edited by Ammit at 2024-07-18 10:06:49Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her -
Ammit, they Are passing SBA, both Fillies and Colts, sorry I should have made that clearer.. about half of my fillies also test SUP to Dam, All the Colts however are testing AGA even when "maxed".
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"Would I need to max/boost all the foals after gen 10 to get them to pass SBA?"
This was the confusing line.
The reason you are getting the results you are is because you cull your colts way harder than your fillies. Test all your foals against a generational benchmark, not against sire or dam.Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her -
What would be a generational benchmark? I'd like to understand testing better, as well as maxing. I want to make some diagrams for the wiki, and these questions often come up when our lines get older
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You should be finding the best foal of each generation (or using a maxed one) and testing all the foals of a generation against that.Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her -
And how would you find the "best" of that gen? Take all the foals that are the "best of pasture" and compare them against one another? How would we do that for live covers and AI? We only have access to Paper and PT status.
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@CheshireFarms It either takes a lot of comparison testing to find the best foal or you can keep a line of all maxed horses to use as benchmarks. Just make sure every non-maxed foal at least tests as good as their maxed generational benchmark.
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I breed almost 5ooo foals a month... thats a LOT of comp testing, I d go broke doing that every month. I guess I ll just keep doing it the way that I am and see where that gets me.
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@Cavalynn that was all Greek to me. And seems incredibly impractical when we're looking at long established lines of 10+ gens. Anni is working on 10, and I'm going on 15. We would have to do that for.....each generation??
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@CheshireFarms You only need to max every generation until you get to 7G. At that point you should be at cap and everything that passes SBA you'll know is at cap. You only have to max then if there's a particular horse you want to keep that didn't pass SBA. My era 14 line just reached 9G and is maxed nearly all the way back, only one or two might just be best of the bunch from 100-acre pastures. You don't have to max hundreds of individual horses to do this if you don't mind inbreeding, and if you're doing this just to have a line of benchmarks, it doesn't matter. I only have 30 unique ancestors at 8G in my fully maxed line so it wasn't that expensive to max. Though at this point I think I'll stop maxing them except for special favorites and just let the rest fail or pass SBA on their own merit.Post edited by Cavalynn at 2024-07-18 15:48:59
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@Cavalynn, so even if I am getting horse ( mares and stallions ) that test SUP to sire/Dam up until 9g / 10g.. you still max them?? And when do you start to max them at 2g ? That seems kinda crazy to me?
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Maxing was still pretty new when I started my era 14 line, so I went kinda crazy with it. :) As long as the line hasn't reached cap, it's still worth maxing them. Even when the line is at cap, I might still do it with foals I just really like if they don't paper high enough and it's a given they won't pass SBA.
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LOL oh my gods. I consider myself a wealthy account on HJ, but the level of funds needed to max all those horses is insanely beyond me.
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You don't need to do tons of maxing. People never needed maxing to have benchmarks before it was introduced. You just need a benchmark for each generation that you consider good enough. And you need to be holding your mares to the same standards are your stallions most members simply don't.Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her -
This may not make sense, but what I do is pick any stallion in the batch, test him to make sure he's sup, add 000 to the front of his name. Then I test the others to him. when I get something that tests sup, I make that stallion my 000 and geld the first. By the end of the group of foals I am testing, I have the best. aga the best I leave alone, anything not aga or better than gets neutered. I don't test the others to sire, just to the 000 one.
Does this work? Or have I been wasting my time?Thanked by 1Cavalynn -
That is a perfect way to find a benchmark and was the gold standard before maxing came into play. If you are only testing against the sire/dam and not doing at minimum this kind of testing then your lines will be very slow to advance.
In order of effectiveness
No testing < Breeding Advice < Strict Breeding Advice < Comparison testing against parent (annismyrph) < Comparison testing against found generational benchmark (OopsDotCom ) < Comparison testing against a maxed generation benchmark. (Cavalynn)
Testing against a found (via testing or BiP) generational benchmark is a great way to test and can be just as good as comparing against a maxed foal, but testing against the maxed foal line is guaranteed to be the best possible.
Benchmarks blow comparing to parents out of the water in terms of effectiveness.
Post edited by Ammit at 2024-07-18 21:53:54Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/herThanked by 1GoldenHeartAcres -
This has been helpful to read through. I had set out sometime last year to test against benchmarks but life happened. I’m going through my stock now and I have a ton of good show ponies now. I’ve been with the game 12 years but really only paid attention to generation and color when I started, so I kind feel like a newbie to all this. That’s a long-winded way of saying thank you :))Thanked by 1annismyrph
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Ok, here's an interesting case, this guy came out at 10.4 and B. Tested as good as expro and better than sire. Just for fun, I made him consistent. That brought him to 10.5. So I maxed him, where he is now, still 10.5 and still B but now he's better than expro.
Marcello Sparpagliati -
The best 2nd gens are a good deal better than expros.Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/herThanked by 1Fiddler -
Testing against expros has been how I’ve comparison testing 2Gs for a long time now. I do keep AGA mares, because they’re pretty or whatnot, but my sup expro 2G mares get named with a slightly different prefix. All of my colts must be sup expro.
I used to do a whole lot more benchmark testing, through the generations, than I do now. I got busy, lost my benchmarks, and have never re-established them. My main line definitely suffered for it.
I need to make sure I establish good benchmarks for testing my new line so I don’t have to rely on maxing to keep my quality up lolThanked by 1Fiddler -
If you tested them against a maxed horse, wouldn't they all fail if they weren't maxed themselves?
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All my Foundations are Expro's so since my 2g must test SUP to parents and paper up, am guessing I am starting off correctly.. and that is also a question I have, once I max a foal.. will I need to max all the offspring from that foal for them to test SUP ? and all future generations will they need to be maxed also ?
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If you are going for the era leaderboards you should always be starting with normal foundations. If you are not going for the era LBs than expros are fine.
Testing for superior to the parents, is not very strict. Testing all the foals in that group against one another (in the method Opps described above) is a better way to test. You don't have to be strict if you don't want but you may find you have mare lag problems in later generations from doing that.
Maxing a foal does not make a horse better than what can be bred normally. Maxing a horse does not make other horses fail testing. Maxing does not mean you have to max the offspring of a maxed horse.
I am getting the sense that there is a general lack of understanding on this server about what maxing does and how testing works.Post edited by Ammit at 2024-07-23 05:46:09Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her -
ok, I might see where the differences are now, I dont care about Leaderboards or Era's, I breed for color and my own "need" to improve "my breed"; If I land on the leader boards for Snowflake or Dp or Appy or w/e ; Lovely, If not no big deal. I test becuase I want to ensure I am improving my lines generationally, not to be in "competition" with other breeders.. I think everyone has their own goals in this game, and I think thats part of what makes this game great. You can't "win" or "loose" you can set your own goals and enjoy it the way you want to. I am trying to understand "maxing" and testing to improve my own lines, not to comepete with other people and what their goals are for their lines.
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Exactly. Well put.
The only time anyone needs to max each generation is when those competing in the newest eras trying to hit cap as fast as possible.
For your barn it sounds like just maxing when you have a foal you like and you want to make sure it is going to be a great breeder is all you need. You do not need to use maxing as any part of your regular program. Just testing foals of the same generation against one another and not worrying about maxing sounds like it would go a long ways in your barn.
Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her