X
HGG Community Forums
Log In to HorseGeneticsGame
HGG Community Forums
Join our discord server!
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Discussions61,367
- Announcements1,188
- HAJ Discussion59,024
- ↳ New Member Introductions68
- ↳ Help Me Out5,087
- ↳ Horses for Sale and Auction14,458
- ↳ Breeding Ads and Sales6,078
- ↳ Herd Helpers22,965
- ↳ Bug Discussion6
- Non HAJ Discussion1,155
- ↳ Saddle Sisterhood113
- ↳ Games, Contests and GiveAWays348
- ↳ Genetics305
In this Discussion
- Ammit April 2014
- Blue meadow farm April 2014
- Chivalree April 2014
- DreamCrest Farms April 2014
- Gael4ce April 2014
- High Five Acres April 2014
- Oak Tree Stables April 2014
- Raina April 2014
- Sankt wendel April 2014
Who's Online (3)
- GoldenSpur 11:02AM
- Haystack 11:02AM
- Taliesin 11:02AM
I've learned a valuable lesson about people.
-
So, several years ago, I leased a mare of mine out. It was a free lease with a year long contract. This mare was leased as a broodmare because I couldn't guarantee she would remain sound due to a long history of random health issues starting with foundering. I was financially strapped at the time, so I thought this was a good way to alleviate some of the burden. We discussed a permanent placement with them after a trial period with some stipulations. After a few months, everything was working out with them, so I sent them a new unsigned contract for permanent placement, asking them to send it back signed and I would keep a copy and send them a copy as well. It was pretty basic, just saying that she would NEVER be sold/given away and if they couldn't care for her any longer she would come back to me. It also stated that they would send me occasional pictures and updates. They put off signing it for months and then suddenly stopped contacted me at all. I tried over and over to get a hold of them with limited success. Her excuse for not getting back to me or signing the contract was that they were really busy. I told them after 2 years, that they either sign a new lease or bring her back. After that I heard NOTHING. I finally got a response to an e-mail saying that the daughter had my horse and was no longer living there, so I needed to find her. I sent e-mails, and letters to the addresses I was given and it wasn't until I sent one saying I was going to contact the police and report her stolen that I got a response. She said I would never see the horse again nor would I get any pictures or info on her. She also said that I was being ridiculous and she was not going to be contacting me again. This was about 8 months ago. I've been trying to figure out the best course of action. Out of the blue I got an e-mail from her last month with a picture of the mare. I replied with a thank you and ask for more info on her condition and anything else pertinent but got no response. Today I got an e-mail asking me to send them her registration papers because they have a foal that they would like to register. Seriously? After the immense hassle I've been through just trying to find her, this girl (who told me I would never see her again) now wants me to hand over the papers and then what?
What on earth am I to think of this? What would you do in this situation? I would like to get the horse back after all this because I don't trust that she won't sell her once she gets the papers. I don't know how to go about pursuing this, so any advice is much appreciated!
Specializing high quality dark horses with lots of chrome.
High Five Acres ~ ID #92912 -
Wow, what a story!
I would find a lawyer's advice, I think he/she would help you to take your horse back. I don't know whether it's valid, but I would keep all emails. In your first contract, had you stipulated something about breeding?
-
I am spiteful, but I would not give them a thing, AND I would send a note from a lawyer asking for the horse to be returned. If they can't be bothered to sign a simple contract for a free horse, I would never trust them to continue taking care of her if something got hard for them. There are many others that could benefit from a free lease while still respecting your wishes. There was zero need for this girl to be so rude and then come back asking you for a single thing...Post edited by Blue meadow farm at 2014-04-27 16:20:45
-
Call the police.
The horse is stolen and they just admitted they have her. -
(And hon...seriously...should have called the cops the second they refused to sign the new contract.)
-
Yeah, I'm kicking myself for not being super tough about it all. I do have majority of the e-mails , but here is the biggest problem - her mother is the one that signed the contract. It does specifically state that the horse is not to be moved or transferred. So technically, would I have to go after the mother or the daughter? The daughter moved out of the house after some sort of family issue and they do not speak to one another. I was thinking of filing a small claims suit against both of them, but I'm not sure how that would work. I guess I've just been hoping this would all resolve itself without me having to get really nasty. I would have been totally cool with them keeping her as long as I got pics and updates. There is no way I'm sending them her papers!Specializing high quality dark horses with lots of chrome.
High Five Acres ~ ID #92912 -
Hahaha! I just noticed the profile pic I have is of the mare (Colby) and her second foal, who is now 6 years old.Specializing high quality dark horses with lots of chrome.
High Five Acres ~ ID #92912 -
Both. The mother transferred the horse but the daughter took the horse knowing full well the situation. They are both guilty. Take everything you have to the cops.
-
Agree with Gael. They have no legal right to this horse or her papers. So long as you are the legal registered owner and have emails to back it, you shouldn't need much more. You are way nicer then I ever would have been...
-
Wow, that's a lot to take in! I agree with everyone else: Call the cops/get a lawyer.
Good luck!
Used to be SilverPony on the old forum.
I am currently working on developing my own line :) I'm not very far yet, but I'm getting there! -
I have to agree with every one else as well. I'd tell them they have two days to return her (and preferably any subsequent offspring) or you will contact the police. If they don't, contact the police and get an attorney. I would send the letter via certified mail.Imation Stud ID# 2609
Our Current Stallions | Our Current Sales
Straws available upon request, reduced cost to breeders and owners of ancestors -
Yes, you do get the offspring. They had no right to the use of the horse, and industry standards are that you pay people for the right to breed their horses. They didn't pay you for the use of her as a broodmare, they don't get the baby.
-
Going to disagree. I strongly doubt you have much in the way of legal right to this mare anymore and certainly not to any offspring. Mush respect to the other posters but I think they ware posting what they want the answer to be not based on any legal understanding of the situation. This horse was not stolen from you or reported stolen it was willingly allowed to leave then you made no physical effort to get her back in almost 3 years. You have her papers so you have some case but to be honest I doubt it is much. These people never signed any contract and more then that the contract you wanted is not legal or enforceable. It would never hold up in court. Is this mare who you were willing to give away, has poor heath and sounds like never should have been bred in the first place because she isn't sound really worth thousands of dollars in legal fees for a case you don't pose a very good shot at winning? You where willing to let her go forever before now you just want her back for not much more reason then you want her back.
Personally I would tell her since THEY refused the deal that was given you want 500 dollars for your time and hassle to release her papers and give them a bill of sale. They can take it or leave it. Aside from that I would wash my hands of it. The people may turned out to be rotten but if the horse looked fine in the picture I would consider that good enough. Common politeness is not enforceable in court and that contract you want will never be legally binding. If the mare is fine is a REALLY worth the drama, cost, time and stress making this into a huge deal?Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/herThanked by 1SD Stables -
"Regular updates and pictures" is kind of a vague request. I'd verify that she's being treated well, maybe ask for a little bit of money for the trouble, and then go on. The important thing isn't really that they're being jerks to you, but how are they treating her? Or, that would be my concern.
Seems like they'd seek her papers and THEN breed, but *shrug*.Chivalree/Storm Front Farm on HJ1 #202879
Abbey Road on HJ2 #382 (spend way more time there) -
They did sign a contract which was very clear about this being a lease. I did tell them on numerous occasions that they could pay for the papers and I would send them a bill of sale. I don't want her back just for the sake of having her back. (Trust me, one thing I don't need is another mouth to feed!) At the time I didn't have much of a choice. I had sold three other horses and I didn't want to sell her, so I figured a lease would be the best option.
As far as breeding her, I really have no interest in any foals they may have gotten from her. My black mare is out of her and is just fantastic for me, so I have no need for any more foals from her. I would sign for them to register her foal if I got the mare back. I would have loved to have resolved this peacefully, but they were not interested in a peaceful resolution. At this point I'm done being nice and dealing with them politely. If I do get to the point where I need to get a lawyer involved I will also be suing for court costs associated as well as any other costs incurred in the process.
Specializing high quality dark horses with lots of chrome.
High Five Acres ~ ID #92912 -
The picture they sent me is of her face, so I have no idea what body condition she is in.Specializing high quality dark horses with lots of chrome.
High Five Acres ~ ID #92912 -
Well that's a bit fishy.Chivalree/Storm Front Farm on HJ1 #202879
Abbey Road on HJ2 #382 (spend way more time there) -
I agree. I've never run across any horse person who doesn't take a ton of pictures of every angle. I'm a picture-aholic when it comes to my girls! I love me a 3/4 angle with a nice juicy rump!Specializing high quality dark horses with lots of chrome.
High Five Acres ~ ID #92912 -
They would have a strong argument that you abandoned the mare to their care. They have significantly more invested in her care then she is worth, and it has been so long since she was released to their care. It may not be the answer you WANT to hear but it is one likely outcome. You can threaten them with it and that may get the job done but I would say you only have maybe a 50% chance of getting her back if it goes to court (depending on your local laws) and then you may be eating yours and there legal fees if you loose. And yes in court it will look like you want her back just because you want her back. I am aware that is not the case but they could certainly play it that way. I don't trust them not to do something I legally can't make them not do is not a good enough reason in court.
You specifically asked what people would do and for advice. I am giving my advice as a business woman and livestock owner. Walk away and in the future never do off site leases. Unfortunately there are some truly nasty people in this world but it is not against the law to be a jerk.Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/herThanked by 1SD Stables