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In this Discussion
- Ammit August 2020
- annismyrph August 2020
- ConfluenceStable August 2020
- DarkFrost August 2020
- Heifer August 2020
- Johara August 2020
- Kat8805 August 2020
- Kintara August 2020
- Lonestarstables August 2020
- Mistylynn91 August 2020
Who's Online (1)
- GoldenSpur 2:17AM
When do you go back to the drawing board?
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I’ve been having issues getting generations to paper up in several (ok, this season, ALL) of my lines. As in, evenly bred, comparably papered horses who went through SBA and were superior to the previous generation unable to produce superior offspring even with the full pasture bonus. Is this a sign to geld/spay this generation and start again? I’d say I need to start over with exceptional producing foundations, but, in the line I’m trying that on, I can’t even get my 2Gs to pass SBA. How do you know when it’s time to call it quits and start anew?
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Have you tried sampling one of your pairings that keeps throwing spelds by breeding through AI?
It could be your mares are so comparable/slightly higher and making your room for SBA passing foals too small.HJ1: 266615
Licenced for Watercolour, Chinchilla, Diamond Phantom Sparkle, Ice 2, Nacre -
I would say it's time to try again once your current generation's quality has plateaued, which it sounds like it has. I have culled my projects twice and started again. I'm about to scrap half my 3rd gen here soon. I just get too attached to the flashy ones and feel like maybe if I hang onto them, they'll come in handy one day. I know I'm just stalling my progress though. It gets frustrating for sure.ID# 260926 Magnum Riding Horses
Forest Server MCzigans91
Mesa Server Circle C -
Also, considering the margin for AGA is a few %, it's entirely possible you are still improving your lines.HJ1: 266615
Licenced for Watercolour, Chinchilla, Diamond Phantom Sparkle, Ice 2, Nacre -
Hmm, that AI thing might be worth a shot. I will try it before engaging in a mass neuter event:). And @DarkFrost, that is a really good point. For the one line, comparison testing with a colt from this year suggests my ‘best’ 2G studs weren’t as good as I’d thought.
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@Heifer I am not sure why that happens, but I had that this season too. Last season I must have had 20 intact superior colts, but this season I had two colts who tested superior to the benchmark - all same paper level. Just need to keep comparison testing and switching out colts or retiring mares who aren't producing what you need.
If you find the AI breeding works for you, try finding a colt testing AGA to the ones you are using that is young enough to boost by 1/2% :)HJ1: 266615
Licenced for Watercolour, Chinchilla, Diamond Phantom Sparkle, Ice 2, Nacre -
Some years, the roll of the dice just isn't your friend and every mare will produce on the worst half of her range.
I recommend taking one colt that you've comparison tested extensively, make it a filly and then comparison test against all the mares of that generation. That will give you a good idea of where any inequalities lie.
Bluegrass #143376 * Specializing in Iced Axiom (ExPro Cobs) and Iced Phantoms (PF Riding Ponies)
~@~ ~@~ ~@~ ~@~Thanked by 1Ammit -
Agree @Johara it varies so wildly. This season I only got 2 Superior colts, rest were AGA mares/stallions or spelds. Last season I had near on 20 Superior colts.... I used so much of my HB's rerolling them all to mares!HJ1: 266615
Licenced for Watercolour, Chinchilla, Diamond Phantom Sparkle, Ice 2, Nacre -
I'm stalled out at the 10th generation on my HJ2 barn. But with a bit of experimenting I have found that one 1% boost makes them superior to their parent, so that tells me I'm not TOO far off base. In lower generations it can take 3-5 boosts to bump them up high enough to be superior.
ConfluenceStable- HJ1 ID#235298 * ConfluenceFarms- HJ2 ID#1998 * ConfluenceRanch- HJ3 ID#15 -
@confluencestable I'd love to see more data on % gaps either by paper level/generation.
I've got A studs testing AGA to some B's (and same for mare's, but then testing worse than against new A's - and when switching a new Sup Stud to a Mare testing AGA against the Blue benchmark.
It's fascinating! Would love to know more about how many % apart they are from various paper levels (I am sure some members have more info on this - of their own theories)HJ1: 266615
Licenced for Watercolour, Chinchilla, Diamond Phantom Sparkle, Ice 2, Nacre -
Copying this from @SandyCreekAcres response to my "Rank" question :
Generally speaking, the higher the Herd Helper's rank, the rarer its combination of color and pattern or breeding ability percentage (that is: Exceptional Producers will have a breeding ability somewhere between 101% and 104%, variable PT scores and may be consistent or inconsistent. Exceptionally Perfect will have PT of 10.4, breeding ability of 104%, and 100% consistency). Perfect Foundation have 100% breeding ability (top of C/Yellow), 100% showing ability (PT 9.9), and are 100% consistent. -
@DarkFrost, there are definitely some 'mathy' types who like to do all that 'calculating' stuff. Heck, Ammit was teaching herself fractal math for some ungodly reason! ( :P ) Maybe you can talk one of them into doing the experiment...I am mathematically deficient and shudder at the thought of balancing my checkbook, let alone figuring percentages and sh......stuff!
ConfluenceStable- HJ1 ID#235298 * ConfluenceFarms- HJ2 ID#1998 * ConfluenceRanch- HJ3 ID#15Thanked by 1Lonestarstables -
@ConfluenceStable I totally feel where you're coming from. I started my first year of college as a pre-nursing major, then got a few weeks into Intro college algebra and Anatomy and remembered how much I hate math and science; I noped right on out of those classes and change my major ASAP. Now I'm about to get my BSW and am over the moon that Stats is the last math class I'll have to take for my entire academic career, including my masters, and it only took my 4 attempts to pass the class.
I'd love to read about the experinent... but definitely not the one who should be doing it. LOL -
I worked it out ages ago, I had all my stallions in a spreadsheet and tried to separate them by just 1 point each lol! I don't have it any more, but I think for memory a comparison test is 4 different, so aga will always test superior with a 5% boost. Before I thought about it in percentages I had a perfect C paper at 9.9, boost 5, and exceptionals, at 10.4. So can be superior to an exceptional at 10.8, so could still need to add two points to get to 11 and an A paper. And so on!Thanked by 1Ammit
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@Kintara if you'd want to share the logic behind how you worked it out I'd be happy to re-do as an experiment :D
What I have so far (at 2G) is 10.5PT A-papered stud, testing superior to both my 10.7PT A-papered stud and my 10.9 PT A-papered stud, one stud was out of ExPer and the other a 1% boosted ExPro. I also have a Blue-papered mare with a 9.9 PT.
PT isn't linked to breeding ability - although that would make it easier to weed out low scoring foals.Post edited by DarkFrost at 2020-08-06 03:56:09HJ1: 266615
Licenced for Watercolour, Chinchilla, Diamond Phantom Sparkle, Ice 2, Nacre -
Normally this happens because of mare lag. I would do the experiment suggested above.
Let's say you get 50 colts and 50 fillies. You keep the best 2 colts. That is the best 4% of the entire colt crop. You keep 20 fillies. That is the best 40% of the filly crop. On average your retained fillies are now 10 times worse than your retained colts because you kept 10 times as many.Post edited by Ammit at 2020-08-06 03:56:19Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her -
@Ammit is it public knowledge the % range of an AGA comparison test? :) I'm aware it's smaller than the range between papers, but not by what margin.Post edited by DarkFrost at 2020-08-06 04:08:28HJ1: 266615
Licenced for Watercolour, Chinchilla, Diamond Phantom Sparkle, Ice 2, Nacre -
PT isn't related to breeding quality, but I just used the same range of numbers to make it easier. It doesn't mean that's what the real numbers are, but give a a good idea of range. If you are willing to spend a lot on comparison testing it's not that hard to work out
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And now thanks to @Johara I've got a new culling method. My pixel ponies are shaking in their horseshoes. >:)
Great conversation though! I've got nothing beneficial to add, my lines have been halted at 5th generation for a while. But I've also not been dedicating as much time to them as I could.Go boldly, where no App has gone before!