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Forestshadow · Jun 2, 2015 12:13 PM

I know that the best way to evaluate stallions of a specific generation is to compare test them to each other but that takes a lot of $$$ to do so.

What's the next best way to evaluate stallions without compare testing them?

Maribo · Jun 2, 2015 12:46 PM

Breeding them to a set amount of mares, preferably proven ones, and comparing their AFPT.

Kintara · Jun 2, 2015 4:19 PM

The new era stallions are good as with a bit of luck they will appear on the LB and so you can see who is better. They only need 10 foals. Doesn't really work with foundations but say era5 only has gen2 and maybe an odd gen3 on it at the moment so if you have a good stallion they will be up there. The best way really though is breed each pasture one at a time and let the email tell you who is best!

Ammit · Jun 2, 2015 6:54 PM

It is actually cheaper by far to comparison test then to breed them out for testing.

Forestshadow · Jun 3, 2015 9:40 AM

Hmmm... I'll have to ponder this. Thanks for the input.

DreamCrest Farms · Jun 3, 2015 11:41 AM

I comparison test everything - first against their sire, then against my benchmark for that generation. It costs lots, yes, but it is way easier then breeding everything LOL (I just went from 191 stallions to 87)

Forestshadow · Jun 3, 2015 1:55 PM

How do you determine a benchmark for each generation?

starbrooke farm · Jun 3, 2015 2:22 PM

I just did the same things that Dreamcrest did about a week ago. Doing it this way significantly cut down my stallions, especially 2nd generations, by not comparing to just sire but to benchmarks for others of that generation. It makes it easier for me to cull knowing that this B or A papered colt is superior to another B or A colt that was superior to his sire. And know I now that all my B papered colts from C sires are about as good A papered, which is much better in the long run than a B superior to sire but who would also test worse to B papered brother if continued to test. So I no longer just only test against sire when I can.

Kintara · Jun 4, 2015 3:16 AM

I have benchmark stallions too I compare too, i compare to them more than the sires really to cut down on comparisons

Helia · Jun 4, 2015 6:19 AM

How do you all pick your benchmark stallions?

Raina · Jun 4, 2015 10:50 AM

My benchmark stallions are the best of that generation or at least of the quality I expect that generation to be at from most lines. For example, I have a *Star 3rd gen, he is the best I have of that generation, but is not my benchmark as that's unfeasible for most lines. So my benchmark 3rd gen is a high A.

You find those benchmark stallions by comparison testing them against each other and looking at the quality of foals they've produced. First, of my existing stallions, I find one that is producing foals in the range I want and then compare him to the other stallions of that generation. In most cases, those worse than him get gelded without a second look. Then, in the future, I can compare colts to him without ever needing to breed them first, and can weed them out that way.

Forestshadow · Jun 4, 2015 1:01 PM

So should I look at my stallions in each generation to see which one had the highest average foal pt and then compare the rest against him to see if he is indeed the benchmark? Then go from there?

DreamCrest Farms · Jun 4, 2015 1:55 PM

What Raina said. Basically, I keep comparison testing stallions of the same generation against each other until one reigns supreme. Then I compare everyone of that gen to that boy. LOL. You could use average foal PT but it may not be quite as accurate (as PT depends on both the stallion quality and the mare quality).

I cut my stallions in half doing this. And did a happy dance with each snip. I keep *nothing* that doesn't meet my criteria (which is first and foremost color - do they have *all* of the LE genes they should?).

Kintara · Jun 4, 2015 7:57 PM

My benchmark stallions are simply stallions that are a known quality. Not always the best of a generation but stallions that I know exactly where they sit so comparisons give me the most information. For gen2 I compare stallions against an exceptional stallion. Those with normal create sire and dam anyway and I like them to be better than him. I have a high B and a very low A I use for better quality parents. I have an A that is 'just' under a star which is also a useful comparison horse etc.. Depends on what you are wanting.

Forestshadow · Jun 4, 2015 9:17 PM

Hmmm, not sure if I have any ex pro stallions. For 2nd gens, I have a mix of A and Bs. So I'm thinking of comparing the As to As, and the Bs to the Bs, and keeping the 9 best.

Kintara · Jun 5, 2015 2:22 AM

Well A's are better than B's, and all A's are going to compare superior to an exceptional stallion anyway. if a B compared as good as an A then he's a very high B. High B's also compare better than an exceptional stallion. If the A's had an A papered sire then i usually like them to compare superior to one of my low A's. But it all depends on what you want in your breeding program and what a public stallions rules are too, if you use any

Forestshadow · Jun 5, 2015 10:17 AM

Ahh, thanks for the tip. I accept Bs from Cs because it's difficult to get As out of Cs using non-boosted lines. I know it's not impossible, but difficult. So I can compare the Bs to my best A once I find that one.

Ammit · Jun 5, 2015 11:55 AM

It's really not at all. It takes time sure but boosting has never been required at all or even vaguely necessary. With pastures it does not even take that much time.

Kaquel · Jun 6, 2015 8:23 AM

Wait it's possible to get an A papered from a C? So two "normal" (not boosted, not exceptional) foundations can have an A son? Never seen that one before...

SandyCreekAcres · Jun 6, 2015 10:51 AM

I have. It was in a pasture, and repeated more than once. TT Diamond Etched has given me 4 A papered sons.

http://www.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?status=any&ageg=&agel=&agee=&erag=&eral=&erae=&f_basic=none&f_adv=level&tattoo=&f_limit=25&stallion=1&mare=1&gelding=1&spayedmare=1&name=&name_lm=like&color=&color_lm=like&bty=1&lined=lined&foundation=1&sire=2773711&dam=&barn=&owner=&breeder=&e1=1&e2=1&a1=1&a2=1&f1=1&f2=1&p1=1&p2=1&s1=1&s2=1&s3=1&c1=1&c2=1&c3=1&d1=1&d2=1&g1=1&g2=1&ch1=1&ch2=1&z1=1&z2=1&sa1=1&sa2=1&kit1=1&kit2=1&kit3=1&kit4=1&kit5=1&kit6=1&kit7=1&kit8=1&kit9=1&sp1=1&sp2=1&rb1=1&rb2=1&o1=1&o2=1&l1=1&l2=1&v1=1&v2=1&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&patn1=1&patn2=1&patn3=1&patn4=1&patn5=1&patn6=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1

I had trouble believing it at first.

Kaquel · Jun 6, 2015 12:35 PM

Wow, I am also having trouble believing it! Haha

Kintara · Jun 8, 2015 2:47 AM

I've only ever got the one A papered colt from normal creates, but it was in a pasture

Kintara · Jun 8, 2015 2:49 AM

I wouldn't compare the B's to your best A, rather the lowest A!

Forestshadow · Jun 8, 2015 9:26 AM

Well the issue is that most of my 2nd As compared AGA. I did find one half brother that compared superior to his younger half brother (same sire) so I snipped the worse one. So I dunno which one is the lowest A.

Plus I don't have like 600k to thoroughly test the 2nd gen stallions. I have currently 12, one from each sire that I've used. So that would be 12 stallions x 12 stallions to do a thorough testing (I would have to do a total of 144 tests) at 4k a pop.

I was able to eliminate a few, though.

Maribo · Jun 8, 2015 10:40 AM

No no no, you do not have to compare everyone to each other. A B papered one just have to be compared to a low A. Then you will know if it's a high B or not. So if you know that a stallion have had a B papered son that has compared superior, you never have to compare any Bs to the sire again. You just compare them to a low A, to see if they are worse or AGA.

Hope that made sense.

Forestshadow · Jun 8, 2015 3:38 PM

I don't know which stallion is the lowest A because all the As compared AGA to each other.

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