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TimidGoddess · May 2, 2019 4:34 PM

Obviously, one needs the gene to show those spots.

TG2 AP Cream Froth
This lovely lady appears to have a faint blanket. Is that from the homozygous ECA3P +?
Both

TG2 AP Remember the Spots
have leopard spotting.
Is that patn1 expressing instead of +? One is Homozygous, the other heterozygous for patn1 and +.

If I want blanket Appaloosas, should I breed for +, or is it more complicated than that?

bluchrystals · May 2, 2019 4:39 PM

Oh, it's more complicated. :D Homozygous PATN1 will give all over leopard blankets, but there's a hidden gene (PATN2) that only show as +, it will also give decent size blankets. W20 also helps show large blankets. If a horse is homozygous lp and PATN1, it will turn solid white with only a few spots, sometimes face and leg markings. Heterozygous lp and homozygous PATN1 shows full leopard.

TimidGoddess · May 2, 2019 4:58 PM

Thanks, I figured out part of that from this guy

FLS3 AP Speckled Cream
Homozygous +, but with leopard spotting.
He has W20/Roan, but no blanket.

All four are heterozygous for expressing Appaloosa.

Aside from looking for nice blanket patterns over the hips, what genetics should I be looking/breeding for?

bluchrystals · May 2, 2019 4:58 PM

What colors do you like the best?

TimidGoddess · May 2, 2019 6:26 PM

I seem to like the Chestnuts and Reds. Although a Black Appaloosa would be stunning.
With Appaloosas, I prefer the blanket patterns, rather than all over. The drafts I have are either bought for scores rather than color or bred from horses I created or purchased.
I can take or leave the paint horses.

Nikkel666 · May 2, 2019 6:42 PM

I love the variations of Appy coat :) let me see if I can find some big reds too

This girls pretty neat she’s got a big ol blanket going on.

TF 1G Saving Face

And this one almost looks like she’s Chinchilla

TFO1 Perfect Storm

TimidGoddess · May 2, 2019 7:34 PM

Please, don't tempt me! I'm trying to breed some pretty foals and buy show horses and barns with any profits I can save. And maybe learn a few new facts about genetics in the process.

Thank you for the offer, but I just can't until I get established a bit more.

Nikkel666 · May 2, 2019 7:35 PM

No worries lol hit me up anytime you need some fresh Appies :D

bluchrystals · May 2, 2019 8:30 PM

So chestnuts, bays, and blacks? Covered most of your bases there :)) sounds like you've got the Appy part done pretty good. Chestnuts are ee AA, ee aa, ee Aa, ee aA. Bays have a black gene or two, which shows as EE, Ee, or eE. Blacks have no dominant agouti gene so it shows as EE aa, Ee aa, or eE aa. There are other variables such as dun, white spotting, or cream but that's the basics on the genes. I'm very willing to help explain some of those, too. There's also a couple of genetics lists on forum that where done as quizzes. They show what the possible genetic combinations a foal could receive from the parents genes. They might be worth looking up. I'll try to find and post one here.

bluchrystals · May 2, 2019 8:32 PM

These don't have the Appy genetics listed, but should give you a good idea of basics.
https://www.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/35044/knowledge-test-2#Item_5
https://www.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/35125/knowledge-test-3#Item_7

TimidGoddess · May 2, 2019 9:05 PM

TG3 Foaming Bubbles
Oh well, there is always next year.

bluchrystals · May 2, 2019 9:12 PM

Sometimes they just don't want to pass that one little gene

TimidGoddess · May 2, 2019 9:17 PM

Basic color genes, agouti, extension, dun, the dilution series of C alleles, that is easy. I have run cat or rabbit genotype percentages in my head in the past with up to three traits. It is when I start to hit genetics that modify patterns, such as Appaloosas or DP interactions that I start to wonder and ask questions.

Thank you for the answers you have given.

bluchrystals · May 2, 2019 9:19 PM

Definitely welcome. If you come up with any more questions and I can't answer, I'm sure someone will. This community is very helpful.

TimidGoddess · May 2, 2019 9:33 PM

He had a 75% chance of getting Appaloosa phenotype. Sigh. Real life or game, it is a new double coin toss every time.

bluchrystals · May 2, 2019 9:35 PM

I just had a chinchilla come out the same way. He wound up being snipped, but no lp anyway. :))

TimidGoddess · May 2, 2019 9:58 PM

Ill2 CR High Average
from my Chocolate Palomino line
X

Tp2 GC Endles Blossoms
from my Gold Champagne line

ee AA CcrC nd2nd2 gg FF SstySsty pp Kitsb1Kitw20 LlpLlp ECA3P+ECA3P+ rbRb WF: Medium
ee aa CCcr nd2nd2 gg FF SstySsty pp chCh KitKitsb1 LlpL ECA3P+ECA3P+ WF: Medium

Is this a safe Kit cross? Or should I breed her to a different stud?
What would you expect the pattern to look like? Besides off white on white if the foal gets double cream dilution.

bluchrystals · May 3, 2019 3:22 AM

As far as this being a safe cross, it is. Sabino shows in the green area of the kit lethality/safety listing. If the W20 is passed on as well as a sab1, the foal will be all white or close to it. There's a possibility of a homozygous sabino, which would give white patterning. I believe this link should take you to that chart. If not it's under the facts as 'white lethality guide'.
https://www.huntandjump.com/faq.php#870

TimidGoddess · May 3, 2019 9:17 AM

Thank you for the reassurance.

TG3 Alpine Flowers
Tomorrow, he gets tested.
He has to be a red base, from the small amount of color I see, it looks like he is heterozygous for champagne. Homozygous for sooty, like both parents. Does this look like Homozygous sabino?
Breeding advice says he is a gelding.

bluchrystals · May 3, 2019 9:34 AM

This is my homozygous sabino1 mare. While the white can be heavier, I think he's picked up the W20 gene instead of the sab1.

B 8259460

bluchrystals · May 3, 2019 9:35 AM

Sabino is kinda like splash. At least from what I've seen, my horses get legs and muzzle. The borders are more splotchy than it is with splash.

kmdrumm907 · May 3, 2019 10:17 AM

https://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=8234820

Red based grey?

TimidGoddess · May 3, 2019 12:39 PM

No gray in either parent, but I did have enough to finish testing him today.

Gold Cream Champagne Sabino Appaloosa Rabicano
ee Aa CCcr nd2nd2 gg FF SstySsty pp chCh Kitsb1Kitsb1 LlpLlp ECA3P+ECA3P+ Rbrb WF: Large

Kit is double sabino. Is that interacting with the appaloosa and patn+ to make him look almost solid white?

Nikkel666 · May 3, 2019 12:48 PM

Interesting :) usually for Sabino to react like that you need W20 lol but his WF is Large and cream is a dilution gene

TimidGoddess · May 3, 2019 12:55 PM

Champagne is also a dilution gene, but where he is dark, there is a visible difference between the white and the color. Pretty, and would be a true breeding appaloosa, if he was not a gelding.

bluchrystals · May 3, 2019 12:58 PM

My mare has the cream dilution, so I'd say it's either the homozygous lp or the PATN. She's only het lp and no PATN.

TimidGoddess · May 3, 2019 1:12 PM

So, for a blanket over the hips, rather than one from hips up to the shoulders, breed out W20, as that modifies the pattern to increase blanket size?
Are there any other genetics I can look for? Or just look for foundation stock with blanket patterns I like?

bluchrystals · May 3, 2019 2:28 PM

I'd look for foundation stock with the patterns you want if you want to quickly see what you want in your herd. Taking what you currently have and culling the ones that don't look like you want, will work, but will take a lot longer to have a sizable herd. What bone density are you trying for?

TimidGoddess · May 3, 2019 2:59 PM

Most of my appaloosas are drafts, but I like warmbloods as well. The way that they are drawn, I just don't care for light Riding Horses and Riding Ponies.

Why yes, my tastes are all over the map. ☺

Ammit · May 3, 2019 3:01 PM

W20 isn't a factor

bluchrystals · May 3, 2019 3:09 PM

Is it just random blanket size? My horses with W20 always seem to have bigger blankets.

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