HGG Community Forums

The various tests give a variety of information about a horse. Some of them deal with specifically with showing ability and some of them deal with breeding ability. Papering addresses the breeding ability of your horses and helps predict the potential quality of their foals.

Each hidden breeding ability "score" indicates a fairly wide range of contributions to a foal's showing and breeding ability. When you click "Create Foal," when breeding a mare and stallion, the program creates a random number from the mare's ability range and another from the stallion's, averages the two and assigns that number to the foal. I think this is done separately for both showing ability and breeding ability, but only Ammit knows the exact details. Because the numbers are randomly chosen by the program, the results can range fairly widely. For PT's, two perfect foundations may produce foal's whose PT score can be anywhere between 8.9 to 10.4, based on a test performed by a player a number of years ago. and posted on the old forum.

I think you should be able to access this page.
http://www.kinetocoredesign.com/showthread.php?38512-PT-Scores-Showing-vs-Breeding

Stallion papering can be done on colts as soon as they are born or created. A normal create stallion will paper C, the lowest of the paper ranks. Exceptional Producer colts and Exceptionally Perfect colts paper B. The next rank is A. The best colts/stallions paper *Star. The very worst breeders in the game paper Failed, and, if they haven't been neutered by one of the tests that automatically (or optionally), they should be gelded.

Worst to best stallion papers: Failed, C, B, A, *Star. Each of the ranks covers a range of ability, so one A, for instance, may Comparison Test better than another.

Mare papers run Failed, Yellow, Red, Blue, *Gold. Mares can only be papered when they have 3 offspring still "alive." The levels are based on the quality of the foals they produce, which is influenced not only by the breeding ability of the mare but also by the ability of the stallions she has been bred to. A mare's paper level may change over time, as she produces more foals because her paper is based on their quality, not simply on a numerical value in her progaming. Many regular foundation mares paper Yellow, some paper Red.

PT scores are useful in breeding because they are in many ways a reflection of a horse's production ability.... but you have to remember here that you're looking at a mare or stallion's FOAL PT scores, not the mare or stallion's PT score. It is not at all uncommon for intact horses to have significantly lower PT scores than their altered brothers and sisters. This isn't always the case, but there is technically zero direct relation between a horse's breeding ability and it's showing ability, so you can't really use one to determine the other reliably.

You improve over generations by breeding the best horses you can breed, and by accepting the fact that some are going to be good breeders, some are going to be bad ones, and most will be somewhere in between. Imagine rolling a 10-sided die every single time you bred two horses together, with 5 representing the sire and dam's breeding ability. Once in a while you're going to roll a 1, once in a while you're going to roll a 10 (sometimes you'll roll a lot of high numbers or a lot of low numbers all at once) but generally you're going to get numbers in the mid range, roughly as good as what you're breeding, maybe a little better or a little worse.

With stallion comparison, it'll tell you flat out when a horse is significantly better (or worse) than his sire, but most of the time what you get is too close too tell. Before we had comparison testing, we didn't really know that (except in cases where there was an obvious paper jump, like A to Star) so we were breeding those... and most lines were just not progressing because the 2nd generation wasn't any better than the 1st, and the 3rd generation wasn't better than the 2nd, and so on.

Which brings us back to PT scores. You can use PT score to determine a mare's (or stallion's - though I think most people use comparison testing since we have it) overall breeding ability, but you need 3 or 4 foals on the ground to really get a good average. Ideally you want a mare's AFPT (average foal performance test) score to be at least half a point higher than her dam's was.. so if your 2nd gen mare's AFPT after 4 foals is 10, you want her dam's AFPT after 4 to be 10.5 (and you can pretty much guess that if that 3rd gen mare gives you an 8.9 gelding, she's NOT any better than a foundation quality mare and is safe to cut from your breeding plan.)

Mare papering is based strictly on the quality of her foals, and takes into account both showing ability and consistency, though mares who produce good show horses also produce good breeders. There's some mystery at work, some modifiers that we don't specifically know, which can make two mares who appear otherwise identical, with the same AFPT, paper differently.

The TL;DR answer is that improving your lines takes time, practice, and patience... and you have to go through a lot of average to find the really good stuff. It's part of what keeps us playing!

A B-papered foundation stallion is perfectly capable of producing an A-papered colt out of a regular foundation mare. Therefore a C-papered stallion is also capable of producing a B-papered colt.

Generally speaking, I always use B-papered (exceptional) stallions, and regular foundation create mares. All of my 2nd generation stallions must be papered A. I expect *Star by 4th/5th generation.

For mares, foundation & 2nd gen mares I expect to paper "Red". 3rd and 4th generation I expect "Blue". By 5th generation I want to see "*Gold".

That is improving breeding quality/ability within a line. Anything that doesn't meet my standards is gelded/spayed.

I breed and show horses and poultry in real life so the genetic side of things I don't have any issue with at all when is comes to colour and breeding for type. I'm not really interested in making in game money at this moment in time, I would like to start a nice line of horses with some guidance to how the systems work- I would like to get the next upgrade for my account but I want to make sure I know as much as I can first so I don't waste months culling horses that could have gone on to produce excellent progeny ect. I understand PT and how that works from here ( http://www.kinetocoredesign.com/showthread.php?30507-About-PT-score-and-winning ) and I know that the majority of money is made through getting points which is why you recommend I just show horses.

I just don't understand the papering system in game, in terms of how it improves the animals in further generations or is it just a milestone thing that everyone works towards? I really enjoy the game because I like to produce my own lines and this is the perfect software for doing so ( once I understand how it works is all!) :)

Thank you so much SandyCreek Acres, you've answered everything! I feel like I could give breeding a really good go now. You've most definitely cleared up the papering system for me. I'd love to take you up on your offer for the HBs. I hope to develop a fantastic line of horses, and I think now I can give it a good start!

Again, thank you all for giving me some excellent advice and being so patient and helpful.