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In this Discussion
- Alianne December 2019
- Bandit1119 December 2019
- BlueBoy December 2019
- ConfluenceStable December 2019
- emilyh18 December 2019
- LEAcres December 2019
- paradoxphoenix December 2019
- SheWolfMustang27 December 2019
- Taliesin December 2019
Who's Online (4)
- annismyrph 6:57AM
- Fiddler 6:57AM
- Haystack 6:57AM
- Leefe 6:56AM
Needing some support... Any other Service Dog handlers here?
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Today we officially adopted our dog, Harley, from the humane society... Since she's been here, she's been training basic dog manors (not jumping on people, not pulling on the lead, sitting, laying down ,etc) on top of a few service dog tasks (retrieval and crowed control).. we took her out to Lowe's since it was right down the road from the humane society and she did amazing! We worked on heeling, leave it, wait, and walking properly on lead...
Well, I made the dumb decision to post on an owner trained SD group about our triumphs today and only got barraded that I was working her too much and that there's no way she's learnt all of these things in just 2 weeks unless I'm working her all day long which couldn't be farther from the truth. She's just a ridiculously smart dog... I had her retrieving a water bottle in less than 15 min... I am a former dog trainer so I know what an overworked dog looks like and Harley truly enjoys working so it's typically me tapping out before she wants to be done with working..
Now all of this is making me want to give up and throw in the towel...
Some pictures of Harley... Her waiting at Lowe's patiently
Her the day after we picked her up 2 weeks agoPost edited by LEAcres at 2019-12-02 13:43:53 -
Okay, I have two responses to this:
1. Most people still train even working dogs like SDs using 'traditional' training methods, and in my experience these people vastly underestimate what you can accomplish with positive reinforcement methods. It makes an unbelievable difference when the animal is happy and engaged and actively trying to learn what you're teaching because they want to, not cooperating because they kind of want to please you but mostly because they feel like they have to. I know you know that, but it bears repeating.
2. If my guess is correct from two pictures, that dog has some Border Collie in her history somewhere. I'm almost certain there's lab. People over estimate the importance of breed, and put way too much emphasis on 'purebred', but what a dog's ancestors were bred for does make a big difference. Point is, I believe you when you say she's super smart! My Border Collie/Kelpie blows my mind with her wicked intelligence on the regular. They absolutely can happily learn that fast, and they're bred to work and work hard. They truly love it. The average human not living on a working farm would be hard pressed to overwork a dog like that if they tried.
It sounds to me like you're doing fantastic, Harley is doing fantastic, and internet trolls are being trolls. Be proud of your dog and your accomplishments and cut the trolls out of your life as possible!Spiderweb Stables
ID Number: 238452
He/Him pronouns -
I would say it might be too much for a puppy to learn that quickly without being overworked but she looks old enough to handle it and if she was actually being overworked you’d know.
When I got my dog she was about a year and a half and she learned super quick how to walk on a lead and sit and down and wait. All I was doing is spending a few minutes here and there working on something then leaving it. She just was so happy to have a person interested in her and not just tying her up outside that she did her darnedest to please.
I’d love to be able to train service dogs some day or even work with a rescue fostering until they find a good home but my girl doesn’t like many other dogs (she reacts way better than when I got her but I don’t want her feeling like her space is being invaded by another dog) so it will be a few years before she passes and I can do that unless we come across a dog she gets along with (tho she’s a cat dog and would love if I got her a cat of her own but I’m not a cat person so her cat friends stay at the barn or my ex’s house and she visits him once in a while)Breeding even generation Grullos with KP, Axiom RBG & Wrong Warp, Chinnchilla, Onyx, Phantom Autumn, Bats, Ghosts, Pumpkins, Skulls & Spiders, Plaid, Watercolour genes -
@Tali - you are 100% correct! She is a Black Lab mix but I can't tell if it's Boarder or Cattle or both.. her training is 100% positive reinforcement as that is the only type of training I know and was certified in.. everything in your comment was spot on! She tells me when she's done (she walks away to her food bowl lol) and more times than not, she's the one that pesters me to train by following me around the house and going to the pantry where her treats are.. I just did the math on how long it took to get her retrieving and it was 33 min from the time my husband suggested it to me sending him the video of her bringing my water bottle to me.. I've only come across a handful of dogs with her intelligence in my time of being a dog trainer and most of them have been herding breeds which is why we chose her! I've always loved the way herding breeds worked but have always thought of labs to be a tad bit derpy (dang lab tail) but they are such a golden hearted breed.. the one thing I've learned by being on the SD forums is that a lot of people look down on mix breeds and shelter dogs because of their unknown background and unfortunately we have no idea about her background but I almost want to say she was given up because she wasn't given a job and was too much to handle.. she can be a bit much first thing in the morning...
@Bandit - I'm thankful Harley is a lover of all creatures but I definitely think she believes she's a cat :))
Thank you both for the words of encouragement :x -
Service Dog Handler and Trainer here! I actually do this sort of stuff as my job, along with working with various law enforcement departments, Search and Rescue groups, etc. to handle behaviourial issues. So far I have self trained 2 dogs for personal use(first one retired about two years ago and my second recently did his first hospital visit!) and countless others for adoptive homes.
In agreement with Tali, please don't listen to them. You would need a DNA test to prove border collie ancestry but she has the looks. They are extremely hard working dogs, right up there with the Malinois, and you will often drop long before they do. Certain breeds are suited for service/therapy work more so than others but it will also come down to temperament. Dogs are individuals and, while we can apply a baseline for intelligence levels, some dogs are smarter than others. Even within the same breeds. :) My current service dog is a long haired German Shepherd, a breed known for their versatility, but also prone to nervousness and guarding. I received every comment from "You'll never be able to handle him full grown!" to "Only a prong/shock collar will work on that dog" but hard work, consistency, and his crazy intelligence levels proved every one of them wrong.
As a trainer/handler that uses positive reinforcement training ONLY, the results are phenomenal. It is still in it's infancy as far as popularity in the dog training world and even the service dog world. Especially when it comes to shelter dogs. You don't always get to start from scratch, or know the history of the dog, as you would with a puppy purchased from a specific breeder. A tailored approach and adjustments as necessary is extremely beneficial.
There are a lot of issues with dog/pet owners that I won't bother getting into, but prevalent is the lack of understanding of working dogs. They were born and bred and hand picked generation after generation to do a job and love the job they do. Even service handlers/trainers can fall prey to this mentality and it sounds like you encountered a few of these. It is our responsibility to learn our pet's/companion's language and communicate effectively and it sounds like you got it down perfectly.
Let the trolls be trolls and if it ever bothers you, just hug Harley. :)I breed Drafts and star horses :D
Silver Wings Tavern Farms
HJ1 Barn ID# 220099 -
Yep we think my girl is a jack Russell x cattle dog but I call her a cat. She has the Australian shepherd spotted markings in the compact jack size. About 25lbs wet and is a similar size the big fat cats she’s friends with.
She’s never bit another dog but she gets snarky/snarly and her hair will raise up. I’ve worked on decreasing the reaction from as soon as she saw another dog in the far distance down to about a thin driveway apart before she gets grumbly.
We went to the park for the first time in months the other day and I saw a loose dog in the distance so had Jackie stop and sit because she was relaxed and I didn’t want to turn my back on it and have it run up behind us and surprise us. The owner finally noticed we were there and couldn’t catch her dog so it did run up and started circling us barking and bouncing off Jackie. I made sure Jackie couldn’t bite the other dog (it was a tiny thing maybe half as tall as Jackie but I know the other owner would’ve blamed my dog for reacting to her misbehaving anklebiter) but I was so mad. Thankfully she just stood there calmly looking at me like what the heck is this? While I told her how good she was being. She got a bunch of treats when we got home for being such a good girl and not reacting.
She got loose one day at the barn and I found her in the dairy field next door creeping around the herd on her belly trying to herd them. I dream of a farm one day and being able to give her a real job.
Breeding even generation Grullos with KP, Axiom RBG & Wrong Warp, Chinnchilla, Onyx, Phantom Autumn, Bats, Ghosts, Pumpkins, Skulls & Spiders, Plaid, Watercolour genes -
@Alianne I have a bunch of responses and this is a great conversation but I'm currently sleep deprived (dang Black Friday week) so I'll keep it to this for now- You are so very right on the working dog thing, and pet dog owners not understanding them at all! I grew up with farm dogs (shelties, a border/rottie mix, a border/lab mix) and currently have a mastiff/something and a border/kelpie, and it still surprises me sometimes when people look at the two of them and think the mastiff is the difficult one! Old man just sleeps on the couch all day, lol. Juniper is the result of an accidental breeding between the working dogs of neighboring farms, and she loves to work. I tell people my dog is high energy, and they go "Yeah, sure, I know dogs it's fine holy bejeezes your dog can fly!"Spiderweb Stables
ID Number: 238452
He/Him pronouns -
Border Collies tend not to be truly happy unless they have a job. Good on you for giving the girl a job. She’ll be living her best life. :)
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I'm in no way a professional handler but I have shown 3 of my dogs to obedience titles. I am a VERY lazy trainer, and my dogs could have gone a lot further if I had put in the effort, but I wanted to have fun more than titles, and I did!
Dog people can be very opinionated! I understand positive reinforcement training, and have chosen to use other forms of training. That doesn't mean I'm going to jump all over Alianne and tell her she's wrong! OF COURSE she is not wrong! What works for her is right! Why in the world should I care what method she uses as long as her dogs appear willing and happy as they work? Heck, some people will criticize you for having a dog with four legs when you could have adopted a dog with FIVE! :P
Horse showing people can be the same way. Heck, everyone will have a niche that they think they can be the resident expert about! We are REALLY spoiled with the wonderful people here on Hunt&Jump!
ETA: I had a Belgian Tervuren for 14 years. Keeping that brain engaged and happy was a LOT of work!Post edited by ConfluenceStable at 2019-12-02 17:15:59
ConfluenceStable- HJ1 ID#235298 * ConfluenceFarms- HJ2 ID#1998 * ConfluenceRanch- HJ3 ID#15 -
@ConfluenceStable Great, now I want a five legged dog. =))
Dog tax of Koto rethinking his life decisions after losing his ball under the couch:I breed Drafts and star horses :D
Silver Wings Tavern Farms
HJ1 Barn ID# 220099 -
@ConfluenceStable Totally not on topic with the rest of the post, but how was it owning a Tervuren? Was yours a working bred dog, or more of a pet quality? How did their drive compare to the typical Malinois? I'm not ready anytime soon, but eventually I want to get another dog. And have been considering a working line German Shepherd, a Tervuren or a Groenendael. Something with more drive than my Doberman that I have now basically. I am hoping to start training her with ta local working dog club just for the experience, and to better prepare myself for a more intense dog. Lol
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Never worked with a SD, only military police k9s and watched civi k9s in training and my own dogs. My pup I lost a few months ago was one of the super smart ones too. Black lab mixed with bluetick coonhound. I got him at 8 weeks and within the first 2 weeks of having him he was house broke, crate trained, and knew over a dozen commands including the differences between high 5, shake hello and shake goodbye. He even got to the point if you said squirrel he would look up to the nearest trees to find one or I had to spell truck funny or say the make name for it because he "knew" how to spell truck.
Forget others that judge negatively. Some breeds learn faster, some dogs learn faster or have a higher drive to learn/please. Those people are probably more jealous than anything. Let them hate. You do you and let your pup keep learning as fast as she wants to. An occupied/learning pup is a happy pup. -
Emilyh18 sending you a PM
ConfluenceStable- HJ1 ID#235298 * ConfluenceFarms- HJ2 ID#1998 * ConfluenceRanch- HJ3 ID#15 -
Agreeing with everyone, please don’t listen to them!
My current dog (a flat coated retriever) can learn a new trick in 10 minutes. I taught him sit, stay, come, fetch, lay down, and “bed” in a week. He was absolutely not overworked and could have handled double the amount of new tricks. It makes a huge difference when they want to learn, instead of only doing it because you want them to. R+ Training is huge!