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Silverstar · Jul 26, 2020 10:16 AM

Doing comparison testing on my mares. I’v been procrastinating that job since it came out however many months ago, and finally had the time and $$$ to do it today. I don’t know exactly how many mares I tested, or how many got snipped. Hopefully I’ll remember to do it every season and won’t have to go through that many again, but knowing me I’ll forget about it for 6 months then realize the mistake when foal quality takes a nosedive, and have to go through the whole process again.

I also am trying to narrow down my stallions to 2 studs per generation, but it’s proving difficult since they’re testing aga each other.

Anybody else doing a summer clean up of their barns?

Xzeina · Jul 26, 2020 10:17 AM

nope, lol. instead I added another barn so that I had space for them and more. :-))

DarkFrost · Jul 26, 2020 10:24 AM

Yes, used SBA and snipped all AGA. I'll be spending my millions swapping any A studs that weren't the top from their dad (keeping 1st from both stud) and then GMT'ing the A's and Blues to be as close to my 'benchmark' as possible.

I may consider snipping all of the Red and B's, but depends how fast I want to to progress my line - I guess - if I snip them that means I am aiming for Gold/A* at 3G, if I don't it means I'm trying to balance quality and genetics. *shrugs*

annismyrph · Jul 26, 2020 10:27 AM

I ve been doing the mares as 2 yo , the colts I do right away because I am still building those show ponies up :)

Silverstar · Jul 26, 2020 10:30 AM

New barns are always fun to fill. I keep almond everything I breed either as a show horse or breeder.

I don’t have SBA to do a severe first snip, I cut all B boys, and today the red girls had to test superior to Dam. I’m aiming for Gold/Star at 3-4G, but currently they’re showing up more at 6-7G, so I’m behind.

DarkFrost · Jul 26, 2020 10:36 AM

@annismyrph, how come you wait a season to start your testing? :)

annismyrph · Jul 26, 2020 11:21 AM

I test them for BA right away ; then wait to see if they will fit or if they are bootstrap but mostly cuz it costs so blessed much lol and I have to save for it ; colors I cull unless they are snowflake or livers

LEAcres · Jul 26, 2020 11:23 AM

I have been getting 4G Star/Gold foals by starting with
B/Red foundations..

2nd gen needs to be A/Blue

3rd gen needs to be superior until I get a Star/Gold papered foal in 4th gen and then at that point, my 3rd gens A/Blue would be tested to that foal and they would have to be superior to 2nd gen parents and test as good as 4th gen Star/Gold so that means I cull even more horses

4th gen needs to be Star/Gold (which I get about 1-4 each season from my 2 most established projects)

The only snipped foals I keep are usually 3rd gen+ over 10.70pt

I still haven't fully figured out my C/Yellow foundation cherry drop project as, in theory, they should be Star/Gold by 5th gen.. but I don't have enough 4th gen to really tell at this point

DarkFrost · Jul 26, 2020 12:00 PM

@Bambi207 If you are happy taking a little longer with your Cherry Drop project, follow the guidelines for your standard lines - and maybe introduce some Red Lines (if you can)

You may be lucky like my C/Yellow&Red Chocolate line (1 of 13 breedings this season, 5 passed SBA, 3 with a PT of more than 10.4) -

2GLSup11147167

Also, what % would you say you are getting Blue/A for 2G from your B/Red crosses?

DarkFrost · Jul 26, 2020 12:04 PM

On another note, for anyone that culls their Red/B's at 2G - do you try benchmarking against your Blue and A's? I've noticed that some of them test AGA which means there is only a few % in it.

Bear in mind I have a 2% boosted Foundation stallion who tests AGA to a non-boosted and both are ExPer/ExPro (105% breeding ability) - both test superior to some of my 2G B-papered studs as well.

annismyrph · Jul 26, 2020 12:21 PM

I thought the aim was FOR red/B at 2nd gen and Blue/A at 3rd?

ztcreek · Jul 26, 2020 12:24 PM

@DarkFrost I've had a theory for awhile on Exceptionally Perfect vs Exceptional Producer breeding ability based on the PT scores I've seen on Exceptional Show Horse vs Exceptionally Perfect:

Exceptionally Perfect is always 105%, but Exceptional Producer can range 101-105%.

DarkFrost · Jul 26, 2020 12:31 PM

You might be onto something there @ztcreek here are the two studs if it helps your research;

1GRadiantDivine

1GShadowCelestial

Regarding foals and their testing here's an AGA example across the Blue/Red barrier (out of the Nacre stud above);

2GRSup11146915 RED Papered

2GRSup11113811 BLUE Papered

and for contrast just to show that not all Red/Blue would test AGA, here's a Red papered mare who tested worse against the above Blue (same sire again);

2GRSup11147142

DarkFrost · Jul 26, 2020 2:13 PM

@Bambi207 - If you have the money to test all of your foals I would highly recommend doing so as you may be missing out on some quality stock (that'll help you get that Star/Gold at 3/4G). I chose one of my Blue 2G's as a benchmark (see post above) and checked all my Red papered mares against her.

16 mares tested 'worse' than and were spayed
24 mares tested 'as good as' and were kept intact

Silverstar · Jul 26, 2020 2:14 PM

@annismyrph it depends on whether your foundations are yellow/C or red/B. Based on my lines this is what I aim for.

My lines on bluegrass all start out with red/B foundations, so they throw maybe 25% blue/A babies with a pasture bonus. So it’s not unheard of to get some Gold/Star at 3g, though it’s difficult.

However on Forests my foundations are all yellow/C and I usually have 75% paper Red/B with a pasture bonus. Those 2g red/B babies then throw a mix of blue/A and red/B.

My percentages are just rough estimates based on what I’ve gotten over time.

DarkFrost · Jul 26, 2020 2:18 PM

@annismyrph, I aim for Blue/A at 2G or something that tests AGA to my highest papered foals, but with a lower paper level themselves.

I do have two lines specifically where I don't care about paper level so long as it is superior as one is an Era 9 line, and the other is out of a Hom DP C-papered stud. (but even than C/Yellow cross this season gave me one Sup to Dam, AGA (to Blue) Red mare).

LEAcres · Jul 26, 2020 2:31 PM

@DarkFrost I fully test all of my foals that meet the benchmarks above. Reason being is that it takes a 5% boost to take a B/Red foundation to a A/Blue which means that a B/Red 2nd gen comparing AGA to A/Blue 2nd gen is hitting below that 5%. When I was keeping 2nd gen B/Red that were AGA A/Blue 2nd gen foals, I wasn't getting 4th gen Star/Golds which means that they were hitting below the benchmarks because the 2nd gen B/Red Superiors were holding them back by a few percentages. I also stay away from boosted lines as much as I can (unless it's a C/Yellow foundation with a 5% boost to an ExPro breeding ability) because it's hard to judge where exactly the lineage stands and also Ammit has stated that it's the equivalent of uneven breeding even if breeding in the same generation.

As far as the cherry drop project goes, I can not add B/Reds to it as every horse in the lineage comes from Cherry Drop herd helpers.

DarkFrost · Jul 26, 2020 2:38 PM

@Bambi207 I can see what you are saying, but it would be less than 5% as the foals already tested superior to their parents (of the same paper level) :\">

In my case two B stallions, both testing AGA - one then given a 2% boost (still AGA). Using highest tested A-papered colt from the boosted studs as a benchmark I found quite a few Superior B-papers which tested AGA against my A-papered 2G colt. Then switching those B-papered colts to fillies they tested AGA against the 2G Blue benchmark (from the non-boosted foundation sire). Same thing for the fillies as previously explained but I didn't boost any mares so can see why those could have been 5% difference.

Agreed on the paper crossing, I do tend to get Spelds/AGA testing foals from parents who are not the same paper level as each other, maybe one day I will switch them out from my foundation stock - but they do occasionally throw some amazing foals!

Shame about the Cherry Drop but you could just get really lucky and get a bunch of Blue/A's in 2G, in fact I would love to see that!

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