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CrimsonHill · Dec 25, 2016 7:07 PM

Okay, so I'm still trying to wrap my head around all this genetics business (it's super interesting, but I still feel so lost).

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone could give me hints as to how chocolate palomino happens? It's seems hard enough for me to find chocolate palominos to research, so any help would be great!

Thanks in advance.

BigBosAcres · Dec 25, 2016 7:50 PM

Chocolate palomino would be Chestnut (ee) one cream (CCcr) Two Sooty (SstySsty) and at least one copy of DP (Dense Pheomelanin, I think I spelled that right) which does not show up on the testing layout but is responsible for the chocolate and liver in the color name

These are my Chocolates in case you would like to see. They have all been color tested.

http://www.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?status=any&ageg=&agel=&agee=&erag=&eral=&erae=&heightg=&heightl=&heighte=&boneg=&bonel=&bonee=&f_basic=none&f_adv=none&f_limit=25&stallion=1&mare=1&gelding=1&spayedmare=1&bty=1&lined=lined&foundation=1&name=&name_lm=like&color=chocolate&color_lm=like&owner=176160&owner_lm=like&breeder=&breeder_lm=like&sire=&sire_lm=like&dam=&dam_lm=like&barn=&barn_lm=like&pasture=&past_lm=like&tattoo=&tat_lm=like&tat_and=and&club=&bc_lm=like&bc_and=and&e1=&e2=&a1=&a4=&a2=&a3=&f1=&f2=&p1=&p2=&s1=&s2=&s3=&c1=&c2=&c3=&d1=&d2=&g1=&g2=&ch1=&ch2=&z1=&z2=&sa2=&sa1=&kit1=&kit2=&kit3=&kit4=&kit5=&kit6=&kit10=&kit11=&kit12=&kit7=&kit8=&kit9=&sp1=&sp2=&sp3=&pax31=&pax32=&rb1=&rb2=&o1=&o2=&l1=&l2=&ice1=&icei=&ice2=&ice3=&ice4=&ice5=&ice6=&ice7=&ice8=&ice9=&ice10=&ice11=&ice12=&ice13=&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1

SandyCreekAcres · Dec 26, 2016 4:41 AM

Dense Pheomelanin is a gene that causes red pigment to build up in hair cells, making them darker than normal. It also causes liver chestnuts. Any horse may carry it, and it will help to darken any red based coat, even ones that also carry other dilution genes like Dun and Champagne. However, only Liver Chestnuts and Chocolate Palominos have special names.

There are two genes that darken coats--Sooty (Ssty) and Dense Pheomelanin (DP). Every horse has two copies or alleles of a gene, one from its sire, the other from its dam. In order to be Liver of Chocolate, a horse must have three darkening alleles. So SstySsty DPdp would be liver/chocolate. So would SstyS DPDP.

CrimsonHill · Dec 26, 2016 5:00 AM

Interesting. Thank you so much guys!

SandyCreekAcres · Dec 26, 2016 5:46 AM

One thing I didn't mention is that if a horse that would be chestnut or palomino gets all four darkening alleles--SstySsty DPDP, the chestnuts will still test as Liver Chestnuts but will appear black and people will sometimes refer to them as Black Chestnuts, and the Chocolate Palominos will be even darker than usual.

http://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=3168325

http://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=2898976

CrimsonHill · Dec 26, 2016 11:25 AM

Well it looks like I'm going to have to try a few experiments once the new breeding year starts!

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