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In this Discussion
- Ammit March 2018
- Caitlinwhoo December 2016
- clarebear December 2016
- fantasyfarms December 2016
- Feather Farms December 2016
- HollidayFarms December 2016
- KerredansCorral December 2016
- SandyCreekAcres December 2016
- Sunshine December 2016
- TawnyEclipse March 2018
- veetiepony1 March 2018
- Zenith December 2016
Who's Online (2)
- GoldenSpur 12:56PM
- Haystack 12:55PM
New KIT lethality and Kit Mutation Load explained
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What is Kit Mutation Load?
This number is how broken the foals KIT genes are. If it goes above 100% broken the foal will be lethal. Foals with mutation loads 100 and below survive. This number will normally be a secret number, but through the next breeding season you will be able to see it to help you understand the new system and how close to load limits different kinds of crosses are.
What controls white factor?
White factor is a numeric representation of the the sum total of all the little things that influence the amount of white of a horse. Foals inherit some of their white factor level from their parents and some from the genes they have. Mutations can also push white factor up. The more mutations on a foal the higher it's white factor. Beware of breeding risky crosses when splash and frame are also in the mix. They increase the over all white factor and your risk of a lethal foal.
How can a cross be only sometimes lethal?
First the game take the whole range of horses that would have survived but had life long health issues, foals that would have survived a few weeks but ultimately died, etc. and simplifies that down to lethal or not. Second is a genetic concept called penetrance. Genetics is not a simple on/off switch like is often taught in middle school. Some genes just put you at a higher risk. In real life some splash white horses are deaf, others are not and the percentage of deaf ones depends largely on which splash allele is present. But regardless the more white on the horse the more likley they are to be deaf. Same with our KIT mutations the riskier the allele and the more white on the horse the more likley something critical was hit this time.
Remember white markings are broken horses.
Most color genes on horses are mutations (anything outside of the wild horse bay look) and a mutation is a broken gene. That is really important to remember. Some breaks like bay becoming black are pretty trivial and don't do much. Some breaks are more problematic. Every white sock, star, pinto mark etc is a sign of something that is broken and the more white on a horse the more things that are broken. Pigment is vital for many bodily functions and a total lack of it is often lethal. The lethal gene system models this reality. The more you stack risky genes together the more at risk the health of the foal. This is true in real life and in game**.
**Does that mean I am anti paint horse? Absolutely not! I love beautifully marked paints and pintos but I also believe that only irresponsible breeders breed two frame carrying horses together in real life..
I have created a chart to show you how risky different crosses are. Remember adding splash, frame and high white factor parents to the mix greatly increases your risk of a lethal foal. Green crosses will always be safe dark red crosses will almost always be lethal.
Are you a numbers person? See the full calculation matrix with all the KIT load numbers here.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HKUJgwuzbKilAgePgMfMewYd8kU3BKWbe8OcX5QNy_Q/edit?usp=sharing
Post edited by Ammit at 2016-12-20 04:37:45Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her -
Thank you for the informative explanations. I find it very helpful in understanding the whole mutation/broken gene picture. I doubt I'm ready for the full scientific load of data about it, but I like understanding, in lay terms what is going on in the world in all ways.Thanked by 1Ammit
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Thank you for this! I had a facepalm moment this morning though, trying to figure out how to add together several combinations for mutations and project it as a "3D" image. It then occurred to me that our virtual horses only have 2 KIT genes...Thanked by 1Ammit
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Thank you for the update and information, this should be fun to test out! I already tried it on a few crosses. A steep learning curve, I'm sure...
This is probably a silly question but is there a way to see the Kit Mutation Load number somewhere on the foal's page or is it only visible when the newborn is created?HJ1 ID 124061
HJ2 ID 134
Licensed for: Mushroom, Dun Factor Promoter 2, Onyx, Splash M, Ice 2, Ice 9, Ice 10, Ice 14, Ice 15, Chinchilla, Phantom Bats, Phantom Diamond Sparkle, Phantom Lace, all the Axioms and all the Rainbow Riots. -
It is only visible on creation. I do not want you guys learning to use it as a crutch. Remember that number is going away after next breeding season.Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/herThanked by 1Zenith -
I got a beautiful mare with a kit load of 90. If I am understanding this correctly, I should not breed her when she is of age to another stallion with a similarly high amount of white because the potential kit load of the resulting foal would be too high. Is that correct? However a low marked stud even if he has white may be save?
Thanks -
Also how does snowflake and appaloosa factor into this if at all?
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To hard to work in hypotheticals like that. Look at her kit genes and compare them to the sires on the chart. It tells you how risky your cross is.Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her -
Appaloosa has no affect on the KIT gene.Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her -
I know this sounds stupid, but what are the definitions for the genes on the chart? And what genes do they match up with on a horse?Post edited by Sunshine at 2016-12-22 13:42:33
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If you use the search you can see all of these in action. :)Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her -
Does extension factor in at all, since red-based horses will typically express more white on average that black-based ones with similar traits?Post edited by Feather Farms at 2016-12-22 23:03:55Who honors those we love for the very life we live? Who sends monsters to kill us and at the same time sings that we will never die? Who teaches us what's real and how to laugh at lies? Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend? Who chains us and who holds the key that can set us free? It's You! You have all the weapons you need, now fight!
My Equine Army -
Nope. That affect is not enough to push a horse from fine into lethal territory. It is only seen in the image generation.Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/herThanked by 1Feather Farms -
Are foundation horses affected by this change i.e. can they die at creation if they happen to exceed the 100 threshold or do they get to live? I'd assume they're exempt from this rule (like they have been with double frame so far and so on) but want to make sure :)HJ1 ID 124061
HJ2 ID 134
Licensed for: Mushroom, Dun Factor Promoter 2, Onyx, Splash M, Ice 2, Ice 9, Ice 10, Ice 14, Ice 15, Chinchilla, Phantom Bats, Phantom Diamond Sparkle, Phantom Lace, all the Axioms and all the Rainbow Riots. -
Foundation horses will never die on creation, nor will GMTing ever cause a horse to die.Post edited by Ammit at 2016-12-23 07:11:58Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her -
I'm a bit behind but this is awesome, thank you! Yep I'm still here :PID - 160680
Claricorn Lodge - Breeding quality Curly Kozoroh Appaloosa horses!
Licensed for Nacre, Prism, Wrong Warp, Plaid, Thunderstruck, Watercolour, Ink Spot, Toner, Chinchilla, Platinum, Mushroom, Onyx, DFP2, Splash M, TMJB, TMSG, Phantom Jellyfish and all Ice genes.Thanked by 1Ammit -
What does Kitr and Kitto mean? I have a tobiano with Kitr Kitto. Is it bad?
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Kitr is roan and Kitto is tobiano. Neither are lethal.Was Rebecca Iavelli on the old forum
HJ1 #51449
HJ2 #130
Think! - It's not illegal yet. -
ok thank you!
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Bumping up so it's easier to find next time I need it.ID 213454
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Just bookmark it using the star.Need to contact me? Read this first.
I sometimes get busy and miss things. If your private message, question, etc. gets missed please ping me so I can follow up with you. I am also always happy to explain or clarify. (HAJ does not have a customer service email, please send me a forum message! )
she/her -
Ammit, do you have a reliable resource that explains the White factor, deafness, blindness, etc with breeds/animals? Like an idiots guide to genes? Example, I’m an American bulldog lover, so I’m a member of a few Facebook pages, and it takes people two+ years to realize their pup if deaf or blind on the side of their blue eye. I just wish I had a reliable link to educate people that color isn’t everything in dogs. I start typing out a response, but I get frustrated.
This game has helped me immensely in color genetics, interestingly because of the lethal white gene in animals and how the genes work in general.
I understand I should probably post this on FB, but for personal reasons I can’t.
My question is, what is your most go-to reference guide? I just neeed a way of articulating to people why their all white, blue eyed bulldog is deaf and blind.
I’m so heartbroken over these bulldogs in a high risk shelter in FL (I’m in Ma) who were given up by their owners because they finally realized their dog had behavioral issues due to being partially (or totally!) deaf or blind, because of this.
Feel free to re locate this post, I just find this place an honest reference point. -
The lethality chart I find interesting, which is why I brought this up. Recently I came across a litter of 11 pretty much all white American bulldogs, and two passed, though they looked in decent weight.