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pitchblackdam38 · Nov 21, 2021 2:10 PM

Is it just me? My breeding program was going smashing for the longest time now for my KitM program, I've just SBA passed a 14 PT stud and started him in my pastures this year. All my studs are boosted. Yet I've noticed the last 2 years my SBA, heck even BA passing offspring is dwindling and this year I got absolutely nothing. Last year I may have gotten one or two oops from another of my breeding programs that actually fit the bill for this one. But everything out of the current pastures of KitM aren't passing. Is PT and breedability going hand in hand or is it just me?

MiaMoo · Nov 21, 2021 3:05 PM

That's really tough. I think that if you go higher with PT then if the foals get lower PT than their sire/dam, they don't pass as often. So the higher the PT goes, the less likely they pass I think. I don't know, I could be completely wrong, it's just an idea. Whatever the case, that is really annoying that fewer are passing!

pitchblackdam38 · Nov 21, 2021 5:25 PM

That was kinda my thoughts, but I usually get a handful of mares too each year with the higher PT and they get mixed in to replace older mares and girls who aren't performing very well. Now I would expect that extra year because I start my studs at 3 and the mares need that extra year to develop...but nothing??? It's driving me battie.

SilverCreekFarm · Nov 22, 2021 1:18 AM

honestly I had a few seasons where i didn't get any intact foals (from 300+ embryos ect) in my 8th 9th or 10th gen horses, they were all snipped by just BA. I chalked it up to my stallions being too high for the mare quality.
This season I have tried not BA or SBA testing the 9th and 10th gen foals. I have PTd and papered them, then comparison test every single one. Surprisingly I have managed to snag a few AGA foals that would have otherwise been snipped by BA. I will keep and boost them :D But this is very pricey, I have HBs and IVs coming out my ears lol

I did clone a couple of my top studs and gmt them to mares to comparison test them against my broodies of the same generation, and that's how i found the huge gap between the genders. My options are to boost the hell out of my newer mares to catch them up, or let my studs fall back a smidge to let the girls catch up. I've been doing a bit of both, I'll find out in a couple seasons how it goes lol.

hopefully at least some of that was coherent

Ammit · Nov 22, 2021 3:39 AM

Just like in real life the higher you get in quality the harder it is to get superior foals. Mare lag is also a huge issue in most people's barns.

Brandybrookes · Nov 22, 2021 6:11 AM

I remember reading a thread somewhere on here about the mares. The person boosted the stallions but never the mares and the mares ended up not being as high quality as the stallion creating the gap .

Forestshadow · Nov 22, 2021 5:02 PM

That's one reason why I don't do boosted lines, I start all my lines from regular foundation stock that are B/C papered for the boys and Red/Yellow for the girls to kinda try to keep the gap as close as possible. I SBA all my foals and keep the superiors.

paradoxphoenix · Nov 22, 2021 5:25 PM

The mare lag is real in my barn. They’re all SBA and superior.

I’m pretty sure it’s because I always have more stallions than I need. In the beginning, especially, I comparison tested them all so much I only had one. But I didn’t have enough mares to go with them/didn’t want to comparison test down to the one or two best mares and only get a couple foals every season.

Now that my pastures are bursting at the seams and mare lag is kicking my butt in the later generations, I’m trying to bring my mare quality up to par. They are woefully behind so it’s going to be a project!

Forestshadow · Nov 22, 2021 6:06 PM

Yeah, I went through all the mares when SBA testing got revamped to compare to both parents.
I lost a LOT of mares at the higher generations. I also ran the mares through the comp testing.
Expensive but was well worth it.

I try to keep and use 9 stallions per generation. I do replace and retire as needed. I use 3 boys one season, then rotate the 2nd set in for the 2nd season, then the final set of 3 gets their hot dates before I rotate back to the original set of 3.

pitchblackdam38 · Nov 24, 2021 10:19 AM

I'm gonna start boosting my mares now. What do y'all think?... 5 percent to all mares (if possible) or just boost with 1 percenters until they compare as superior?

Forestshadow · Nov 24, 2021 2:03 PM

Personally I would just spay all the mares that didn't test superior and take the hit now and start working on keeping only superior mares. Would be the cheapest route unless you have HBs to burn.

Nightphoenix · Nov 24, 2021 5:10 PM

Yeah, I agree with @Forestshadow

ConfluenceStable · Nov 24, 2021 5:36 PM

I am trying a thing where, with my foundation horses, I only breed C papered stallions to Red mares. Its going to take forever to get to 8, 9, 10th generation, but I want to see how that affects mare lag.

Forestshadow · Nov 24, 2021 8:32 PM

Sounds like an interesting project, keep us updated on that, Confluence

pitchblackdam38 · Nov 27, 2021 5:15 PM

So on the upside, I have like 20 mares that were superior out of 58 or something...not bad! I'm still keeping the AGA girls but I culled hard, there were some stragglers that hadn't fully been tested and I weeded them out. It's a good start. I may just let one stud have all and see the outcome and switch up each year as I think someone suggested above.

The big change is I decided to flush all the superior mares (I have like 80 surrogate ladies for just this reason) I'll increase that number to accommodate and implant embryos.

Can't wait to hear how it goes Confluence

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