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lecobb · Dec 6, 2021 6:48 AM

Phenotypically, does being het/hom LP make any difference?

PATN controls the extent of the color distribution, right?

I see other options related to apps in the search, but I don't really know what they do. Searching them didn't really help me see a difference.

These horses are some of my least favorite kind of app (besides mostly white leopards, or the white blanket with no spots):
I don't know if the LP is making the lighter flecks on this one, or the W20

1G ExProd Smoky Black App

1G ExPer First Snow

My favorite type would be large blanket, large spots.

2G Pretty App

5 Besides Khandy
https://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=11826724
https://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=11829381

Nightphoenix · Dec 6, 2021 6:53 AM

Take A Wisp 3G

Yep, definite difference in phenotype! Hom LP is mostly solid white and doesn’t have many spots.

PATN1 affects blanket size. Hom PATN1 usually causes the leopard phenotype.

Humboldt · Dec 6, 2021 6:56 AM

Those white flecks you are seeing are due to Varnsih - hidden gene in the game. They get lighter and more prevalent as the horse ages. Varnish out to nearly all white.

Evergreen Boughs are the herdhelper that is a guarantee to not have Varnish, otherwise, its a gamble. I believe there are some players that breed for non varnish appies.

Snowflake is a heavy varnish variant tha is now testable.

Then there is a halo gene that affects spots as they varnish. I don't know enough about them. I don't breed appies but GMT them occasionally.

Nightphoenix · Dec 6, 2021 7:02 AM

Halo really shows when combined with DP. It gives the spots a “halo”.

This boy is a chimera, but you can still see the effect.

Oaken Blade 2G

lecobb · Dec 6, 2021 7:12 AM

So to get the large blanket, I should breed for one LP, and one or two PATN, correct? And avoid snowflake.

Is Halo the varnish regulator 2?

For the horses I posted first, (the one LP no PATN), do those not have spots because of luck of the draw, or something else?

Nightphoenix · Dec 6, 2021 7:15 AM

Yes, yes, and there’s really no guarantee how the leopard complex will express. There’s definitely still some genes we haven’t discovered yet. PATN usually causes the spots, but sometimes a horse without PATN will have a few spots.

Humboldt · Dec 6, 2021 7:17 AM

If you want spotted blankets, then 1 Patn is enough. 2 copies of PATN1 get you leopards and near leopards.

And then to get more complicated there is a hidden PATN2 in the game. It is not testable but you will see the horses that carry it. They are often the leopards or near leopards that have only 1 PATN or no PATN. i don't have an example in my barns to show you.

boredaf · Dec 6, 2021 8:54 AM

Ooh I didn't know about patn2 :)

Also don't forget asr1 if they are looking for lepoard they'll prob want that.

Treble · Dec 24, 2021 5:03 PM

Do all Appies turn white with age? How can we tell? I have an appy with a rear blanket that I think looks pretty snazzy:

Dot Dude

I just don't think it's worth breeding if dots fade to white after a while.

Cavalynn · Dec 24, 2021 5:30 PM

@Humbolt, I also had no idea about PATN2! I've noticed some appies in my barns lately that don't carry PATN1 yet express blankets, and I was wondering about that. So would these all be PATN2 carriers?

CL11TruBrownAppy13397029

FR13569407

CL11DarkSilverBayAppy1

2G Morel 14306505 DP

2GMorel14547451

Below are all my tested appies that don't carry PATN1. I assume the ones that have just one or two butt spots are within the normal range of variation. But is there a chance all of the ones with a small blanket are PATN2 carriers?

https://www.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=go&hpp=100&color=appaloosa&owner=218079&42=2&128=0&129=0&offset=0#white-markings

Cavalynn · Dec 24, 2021 5:34 PM

And could PATN2 be what causes that messier, sort of smeared edge to the blanket? Because I've noticed that on appies before too and thought that it was just chance variation in phenotype, but looking at these potential PATN2 carriers, I notice all of them have that and very few of my PATN1 carriers do.

Humboldt · Dec 24, 2021 5:36 PM

Yes, its possible. I don't breed Appies anymore but I did have a near leopard stud with only 1 copy of Patn1. He produced babies with large blankets and not patn listed in genetics so assumed he had patn 2.

SabreBaby · Dec 24, 2021 6:11 PM

I know one thing.... Usually when I GMT a PATN1 onto a horse, it will create a +>>PATN1 somatic tattoo, but yesterday I GMTd PATN1, and it left a PATN2>>PATN1 tattoo. I found that interesting. I guess I should have just left it be.

annismyrph · Dec 24, 2021 6:16 PM

If you care to ; search my barns ; there is well over 5k appies in there ^_^ you will get a pretty good idea of what you want vs what you dont want LOL ; ALL Appies varnish ( with the exception of the magic Ammit performed on Evergreens ). if you look at a "middle aged" ( 7-12) year old App ; you'll see the main coat fading and spots showing up where there used to be a solid color ; once they hit 15 or so most are almost completely white with colored spots ; unless its a Snowflake ; those just go white with random color " striping" in the coat

Cavalynn · Dec 24, 2021 8:25 PM

@SabreBaby, That's interesting. It reminded me that when DP was untestable, people used to use the gene sales as a cheat to check if a horse had DP, because it would show there whether the horse already had DP or not. So just now I went to the gmt lab to see if PATN2 would show as an option to edit, and on one of my horses that I suspect has it, I see three options under appaloosa blanket size:

- costs 1 token
PATN1 costs 1 token
- costs 1 token

On one of my other horses that clearly has no blanket at all, it just has two options:

- costs 1 token
PATN1 costs 1 token

The extra - allele on the first horse must be the hidden PATN2, maybe?

SabreBaby · Dec 25, 2021 5:28 AM

Ahhhhhh, that makes sense! I think I've seen that before too and I just didn't realize why I was seeing that! :-?

LavenderRidge · Mar 28, 2022 12:15 PM

PATN1 controls LP (appy gene) 1 copy of PATN1 with LP makes a horse have a blanket with additional spots on the blanket. Hom PATN1 and Hom LP makes a horse just have spots.

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