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Remind me how the brown gene works?
  • I used to know this, and i've forgotten at this point.

    I've looked through the search, and it seems that a horse must have two t/t for it to be brown vs bay? It looks like a/t also gets brown.

    If that's correct, i'm confused about why this horse is bay, not brown. Her tattoo is homozygous brown, and she is t/t.
    image
    f hb c2
  • Brown shows up much better with sooty. It pretty much gives the horse a richer bay color.

    image
    14641976 RFB


    The dominance order for the agouti gene goes like this.

    1. Wild bay (+)
    2. Classic bay (A)
    3. Brown (t)
    4. No agouti mutation (a)

    Post edited by Nightphoenix at 2021-12-15 06:57:06
    I’m autistic and I struggle with any kind of communication, so I apologize in advance if I say anything rude or offensive because there’s a 99% chance that I have no clue I did it. I appreciate your patience with me!
  • To add on to my question, I did a really really narrow search for browns with hom sooty and DP, and still see a good bit of variation in the dappling. Is the dappling just random?

    https://www.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=go&jump=0&filter2=1&1=1&3=2&6=1&7=1&8=2&9=2&10=2&11=1&13=1&92=2&16=2&54=2&21=2&22=1&23=2&24=1&53=2&25=1&26=2&27=2&28=2&29=2&30=2&31=2&32=2&33=2&34=2&76=2&77=2&35=1&36=2&79=2&84=2&37=1&38=2&39=1&40=2&44=2&45=1&46=1&47=2&50=2&wf2=0&wf3=0&wf4=0&wf5=0&wf6=0&123=2&124=2&128=0&129=0

    From that search, this horse phenotypically looks like it should be buckskin or bay dun, but it's brown. Is it the S+ that's making it so light? I thought that was another darkening gene.

    E/E t/t -/nd1 f/f Sty/S+ p/- DP/DP
    image
    Zz Terror
    Post edited by lecobb at 2021-12-15 07:04:54
  • Here's a link to Ammit's discussion of the agouti gene in the genetics guide:
    https://www.huntandjump.com/geneticsguide/?page_id=48

    Ammit builds this game to include a range of possibilities for almost everything, which is the case in real life.

    S+ causes more intense darkening, especially along the horse's top line and also dappling, which is usually random.

    You can't always judge a horse's genetics from it's pheonotype, nor predict it's phenotype from its genetics. D
    Post edited by SandyCreekAcres at 2021-12-15 07:19:28

    image
    Thanked by 1Nightphoenix
  • The S+ is causing the dappling :)

    I would guess the nd1 is causing the lighter color because you can see a similar effect in the dam.
    Post edited by Nightphoenix at 2021-12-15 07:19:34
    I’m autistic and I struggle with any kind of communication, so I apologize in advance if I say anything rude or offensive because there’s a 99% chance that I have no clue I did it. I appreciate your patience with me!
  • Ahh, I finally read the genetics guide for both agouti and nd1. I don't think I knew that nd1 lightened color. Thanks for both of you for pointing those out.

    So going back to the top, why is that horse bay, not brown?
    Thanked by 1Nightphoenix
  • I could be wrong, but doesn't Brown need Sooty as well?
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  • That wouldn't have surprised me, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Here's a brown without sooty or DP

    E/e a/t f/- p/- -/SB1
    image
    Autumn Ivy Rose


    One more
    E/E a/t W20/W20 PATN1/-
    image
    Kol
  • Yeah, this is now an Ammit question as I have no clue why this is :)
    I’m autistic and I struggle with any kind of communication, so I apologize in advance if I say anything rude or offensive because there’s a 99% chance that I have no clue I did it. I appreciate your patience with me!
  • Homozygous brown (t/t) needs at least 1 sooty (or DP) to be brown. t/a is brown without sooty. The thing to remember about all the agouti genes is that they work by removing black from the body, not by adding it to the points.
    Breeding high quality Sheldasen horses in all the fancy colors.
    81995
    Thanked by 2lecobb Treble
  • I’m pretty sure brown is the only agouti mutation that needs sooty or DP to express or we would have a lot less bay horses in this game…
    I’m autistic and I struggle with any kind of communication, so I apologize in advance if I say anything rude or offensive because there’s a 99% chance that I have no clue I did it. I appreciate your patience with me!
  • Confusing genetics! Keeps the game interesting though!
    Post edited by bluchrystals at 2021-12-15 23:17:54
  • @Nightphoenix ; is Liver considered an agouti expression?
    Anni9

    image

  • @annismyrph Nope. Liver can only appear on red based horses. Agouti mutations can’t express unless the horse is at least het black, so liver is not an agouti mutation :)

    That’s also why it’s termed liver chestnut. It can only express on chestnuts!

    And palominos with the right gene combo, but palominos can only be red based.
    Post edited by Nightphoenix at 2021-12-16 05:42:26
    I’m autistic and I struggle with any kind of communication, so I apologize in advance if I say anything rude or offensive because there’s a 99% chance that I have no clue I did it. I appreciate your patience with me!
    Thanked by 1annismyrph

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