HGG Community Forums

All changes will happen after breeding closes on the 28th and awards go out for the season.


Why I am not looking for feedback.
Often with changes like this, I hold an open forum discussion about whether such changes be made. I want to be clear that these changes are already made on our development server and simply waiting to be uploaded to the production servers. They are happening no matter what replies I get on this post. This is an informative post, not one seeking feedback from the general player base.

I spent the past 2 years in the game taking a real deep dive into leaderboard mechanics and learned what it is like to take a line from new creates to primary era LB champions with regular user accounts. I have an in-depth understanding of leaderboard strategy both from a behind-the-scenes knowledge standpoint and as a regular player. During this time I have had many conversations with players who were also aggressively pursuing the leaderboards. Between us, we identified problems in the leader system that needed to be addressed. So the conversations about whether these changes should be made have already happened between myself and the member base. But they happened with players who demonstrated they were also engaging critically and on a technical level with the leaderboard system

I love getting feedback and hearing opinions from everyone, but this is one of those highly technical things that you need a deep understanding of how this part of the game works to be able to give applicable feedback. This is a conversation that needed a panel of experts, not a public opinion poll. I hope you will understand and forgive me for keeping these conversations limited to those LB expert members in the game. It simply is not possible for me to make all of your experts in a single post so you can weigh in on this.


Why these changes are happening.

All that said above I am happy to talk about what we found, and why these changes are happening.

As the primary era lb system stands right now there is one way to win. The only way to stay relevant and on top of the lb is to produce a foal, max it, and clone it 9+ times. The less fancy your line is the better, as it makes the cloning price viable. This is the only way you can win in the primary-era leaderboards right now. Cloning currently allows you to get a training score on a foal that is better than a perfect foal, which means sires/dams with those better-than-perfect clone foals always win the lb.

To be frank I think that's bullshit. First of all, only premium users have access to cloning which means only premium users can win the primary eras. I also just don't like anything that requires you to play one very specific way and limits what genetics you can even use in your lines. After these changes are implemented there will be multiple ways to hit the top of the leaderboards.

Maxing - You can max 10 foals and get a perfect lb score
Maxing and Cloning mixed - You can max one or more foals and clone them until you get a perfect lb score
30-day pasture embryo surrogates - It takes on average 30 foals produced from embryos out of surrogates with 30 days in the pasture to get a perfect lb score

Semi Viable Strats
Cloning only - It is possible to gamble and try and get 10 perfect foals from cloning only but realistically this would be tough. Using a Best in Pasture foal is a good bet here, or clone several of your best 30-day embryo foals.
Huge number breeding - It is possible to brute force producing enough foals to get a perfect foal score but we are talking hundreds of foals to do it and I don't think it's really a viable strategy.

So you best options are maxing, cloning, or using your pasture mares as embryo surrogates.

A few things you might need to know to understand this.
-The best stallion list only looks at the 10 best foals so you only need 10 perfect foals to get a perfect score. You only need 4 for mares
-A perfect score is the best possible score you can get for that era for that current generation and requires 10(4 for mars) perfect foals to obtain. You don't need a perfect score to place or even win on the LB, but a perfect score is the aim for competitive limited-era LB players.
-"Score" here is a hidden number that players can't see. I am using it for clarity here so I can be precise about how the LB works but just know you are never going to see a LB score listed anywhere. Don't worry about what the score is, just know there is a cap on how good a horse can score at any generation, and I am calling that cap "a perfect score"

Cloning Changes
Right now cloning works by producing a new foal that has identical breeding ability to the original horse, but can have slightly lower or higher training ability and inconsistency. The change going in at the end of the month will impact that training ability swing. Instead of going up or down, the training ability of clones will only stay the same or swing down from the original foal.

Please note that inconsistency can impact the PT of the clone but has no impact on the leaderboard score of the sire or dam so it is not being changed.

This change will mean there will no longer be better-than-perfect foals on the limited-era leaderboards. Any breeder can take the top PT spot, not just those who clone. Any breeder can take the top sire/dam slots not just those that clone. Cloning has been calibrated so it will take about 30 clones of maxed(or perfect) foals to get the same perfect score that 10 maxed foals nets you. It's less powerful than it was but still a viable option.

I know some players suggested that clones be bared for the boards but I don't think that is needed. Instead, clones have been handicapped some so they can be no better than non-cloned foals, and it takes a bit more work and cost to get a perfect score with them.

This change does NOT apply to those of you cloning cap-quality horses. Creating horses that are above 15 PT is a big passion point for some players. It also is an important part of the strategy in the non-limited eras. If you clone a horse that is cap breeding quality, the training ability can swing down or up just like the system is currently. However, to toss a fun bone to those breeders, the change will also come with the ability to reach a PT as high as 15.5. This has been balanced so it is not easy to get and can be pretty pricey but 15.5 but it will be possible.


Embryo Breeding Pasture Surrogates
As I announced in my recent post, pasture mares will be usable as surrogate recipient mares, and their 30-day pasture bonus will apply. This stacks with the AI bonus so embryos carried by 30+ day pasture mares will get the equivalent of a 45-day bonus.

If you are using 30-day pasture mares you should expect very high to even 100% SBA passing rates (depending on the parents). It has been calibrated so it takes about 30 foals produced this way to get 10 perfect foals for a perfect lb score. That means there will be a way to be competitive on the LB without any maxing or cloning required. Pastures and embryos are available to all members even without paying any real money – your primary pasture is free. This will open up limited lb eras to all members of the game regardless of RL financial status.