HGG Community Forums

Ammit · Apr 27, 2025 9:50 PM

This is the other post I mentioned would be coming in the post about lb changes. I don't foresee anyone needing to make notable changes to there programs because of this, but I wanted to give everything an excessive amount of heads up that this is coming.

As always please take the time to read the whole thread when responding. Try not to respond to only this original post.

This is a complex situation with a lot of moving bits and a rather rambly post. If you need clarification on anything please just ask. Thank you.

____________________

The problem:
The game keeps adding a new era every 6 months. We don't have an unlimited number of players. The scripts that run the leaderboards can only handle so many eras. Players can only keep so many futurity eras qualified (and I think most servers are at the limit of what they can do already). It is also unreasonable to expect me to add another $2,520 USD worth of prizes to the board every year forever. There has to be some sort of limit.

The game can not keep adding eras unchecked forever without starting to remove some. This is a simple fact that can not be gotten around. If we do not shut down some older eras clubs and futurities the era system will break down and stop working. It's unreasonable to expect eras to grow forever.

The goal is to have a stable number of eras and every time we add a new era to the game, an older era drops off the club list and futurity list. This conversation is about finding the best way to do that.

Suggested Solution
The solution that has been suggested is to combine some of the smallest "Older Era Clubs" leaderboard and futurity boards into a shared board. It would still pay out awards but small eras would share a board and prize pool.

For example on bluegrass the average size of an era club is 35,000 horses. If we combine eras 1,2 and 3 the new combined club would still only have 23k horses. Still much smaller and less competition than the average.

Horses in the new combined era clubs would still say era 1 or era 3 on their page like normal; just the club and futurities they are competing in would be combined. Every horse would still be eligible for a prize pool, but the amount of competition, player futurity effort and server resources dedicated to any single era would be more equal.

The idea of "combine the small eras" is simple enough but there is a lot of details to work out.

How many clubs should stay distinct?
The first important question I need feedback on is how many clubs is the right number. Mesa currently has 8 active eras and it feels like they might do ok with a few more. Bluegrass currently has 18 and seems to be really struggling under the weight of them. (Both the players and the actual server to run them). Forest has 16 and seems to be at capacity and starting to struggle.

I was kind of kicking around having 10 total era clubs and futurity categories but that may be too few for some servers. More than 10 is probably too many for mesa to support. We could freeze each server at the number of era clubs/futurities they have right now. Maybe we need a different number for each server? Maybe we should have a variable limit based on how active the older eras are. For example, maybe eras with 15k+ are not eligible for merging.

Let me know how many eras should have there own club and futurity board, and why.

How fast should the merging happen?
My plan is to start merging some eras in December. Mesa server really doesn't need any merging to happen then. Bluegrass may need it to happen in June. I am not sure they can handle 19 eras. (I will leave that up to Bluegrass to decide.)

The two ways we can do this are:
1) Just merge the eras in December (however many we decide we want to merge) and then merge one more era every 6 months so we stay at the same total number of eras.
2) Merge an extra era every 6 months until we arrive at the target number of eras. Then proceed with merging 1 era every new era so we stay at the same total number of eras. This could stretch things out of multiple real life years.

Let me know how fast we should handle reducing the number of eras. All in one, or paced out over a very long time.

What do we call the new combined/retired eras?
I have been kicking around calling this new combined era club and era futurity the "Retired Eras." That term seems to imply to some that awards are not given for "retired eras". That would not be the case. Do you have any ideas what to call this new combo era?

Do you have a different suggestion on how to reduce the total number of eras? I am happy to hear other ideas. Just keep in mind adding new eras forever without reducing the total number is not viable. Reduction is mandatory for the game to keep functioning.

Sidenote: Why size and not age?
The initial idea was to combine clubs based on age but it was pointed out that the era 0 club, while the oldest, dwarfs all other clubs. Merging those small eras into zero would be a big upset for those projects. Merging two tiny eras together is a lot less disruptive. My goal as always is to insure the best long learn outcome and health for the game with the least player disruption.

____________________

I want to include a general note as well. I understand that the world is very stressful right now. A lot of people are not in a good place. I have every bit of empathy for the situation many find themselves in. I am asking for a return of that empathy. I am balancing, as well as I can, the long term needs of the game with the desires of players. Please do not vent your stress from the rest of the world on me. Please do not make this community a toxic place. We can disagree in a way that is respectful and constructive. I am asking for player feedback because I respect the needs of my player base. Please in kind, respect the needs I have as a game administrator to insure the long term health of this game. Thank you.

I look forward to hearing your feedback.

bluchrystals · Apr 27, 2025 10:00 PM

Though I realize people play the eras, I am not one of them. I play to have fun, so I only enter the color clubs. :-B And sometimes I run out of time to enter them fully. @-)

Ammit · Apr 27, 2025 10:16 PM

If we allow the era clubs to keep growing to the point of technical collapse they will take the color clubs down too as they share the same codebase and server resources.

MackZ · Apr 27, 2025 10:30 PM

I understand the need to reduce the number of era clubs and futurities, and I think it sounds reasonable to reduce the number on Bluegrass to 10-15. Personally, I would have no problem with the reduction taking place all at once as soon as you need the change to happen. It sounds like the smaller clubs could do with the increase of competition that would come from combining them.
As far as a name is concerned, I think calling the combined club the Retired Eras makes sense. Other options could be "Older Eras" or simply "Combined Eras".

Aidendale · Apr 28, 2025 1:02 AM

I'm in favor of option 2 for how fast this happens (as this is what was discussed in Discord and what I've started preparing for).

Maybe have a goal of getting to 15 eras, see how it goes at that, then reduce it further if Bluegrass is still struggling.

CheshireFarms · Apr 28, 2025 1:50 AM

I say rip the bandage off and just reduce down to 10 eras + Retired Era Board. Do it in December and keep it the same for all 3 servers.

Ammit · Apr 28, 2025 2:16 AM

I want to expand on Aidendale's comment to say that it is totally possible for us to start with a higher number and then change our minds to a lower number later on. We can always adjust as we go. Just want to make it explicit that we don't have to decide once and for all.

Visions · Apr 28, 2025 4:34 AM

I am like bluecrystals - I play to breed for what I like, and enter color clubs. My first time playing for a specific era will be in June, and I am all for combining the small eras on this server in June. I will leave the amount left up to the powers that be and those who have more knowledge than I.

annismyrph · Apr 28, 2025 4:44 AM

OK, so if Era 0 is still the largest Era, then how will you decide which to combine? Just based on the numbers? So it might be 1, 3 and era 7? That may cause some additional confusion. It might be best to name the "Combined Era's" the numbers of the Era's that are combined within it, so Players know where to look for their horses on the lists..Are you planning on only having 2 Era's combined or will you combine Era's to meet a certain number of horses? If the latter.. how many horses are you planning for to "fill" the club? I think doing it quickly and then letting the players settle into the " new" boards might be best.. that way all the reactions happen at once and when the fuss dies down everyone can see how it works out for them.

ETA : I dont breed for Era's just color to be honest.. and even then its kinda half done.. My horses are generally "good enough" to hit the boards but rarely do I "win" with them. I breed more for my self then to "compete" anymore since the ones I used to win on got combined a while ago so its no big deal anymore.

WhiteValley · Apr 28, 2025 5:27 AM

First of all, I'd like to say thank you for explaining this change and the reasons behind it, and for taking the time and trouble to consult us about how to implement the changes. It's so nice to have a game with a real person in charge rather than a kind of faceless game provider.

I thought at first that option 1 would be best, but having re-read the options I think option 2 might be the better one. If there is just going to be one group of the older eras then I think MackZ's idea of calling it 'Combined Eras' is a good one. As for the number of Eras, I plucked the number 12 out of the air, but there was no logic to it. :)

As always, whatever changes you make will turn out to be beneficial to the game, and we will all adjust to them.

Aidendale · Apr 28, 2025 5:28 AM

As someone who does have horses apread across eras (and deliberately so), I'd find it very upsetting to "rip the bandage off" amd have it all done at once - especially since, as mentioned, when it was discussed in Discord and I brought up concerns, it was stressed to me that it would be done slowly.

I've adjusted to the thought after voicing my initial concerns, but if the plan suddenly changed to doing it all at once and in just over a month from now? I'd feel very deceived, to be honest.

Would I throw a fit or quit? No. But I would be hurt enough to distance myself and reconsider the time and money I spend on the game.

Ammit · Apr 28, 2025 6:01 AM

Let me rephrase my prior post. Sorry dealing with a headache.

Aidendale your concerns where taken seriously and that's why the idea of a long delay is being presented. I have always been clear though that major changes to the game are discussed by the community on the forum and never decided wholy by the discord group alone. That would be unfair. Every player has a right to have a voice. I am sorry if there was confusion thay made you think you had been promised something you had not been.

If you think a rapid change is unfair you are very invited to make your case to other players that they are being unkind by pushing that idea. I have a feeling many would agree with you, but I am willing to here all sides.

As for "doing it all at once in a month" there is no risk of that. I think it would be very unfair. If bluegrass members feel they are being crushed by the futurity and need support and can't possibly handle 19 eras I am willing to hear people out. But so far no one has mentioned they are worried about having one more. Me being open to hearing people's concerns is just that. Me being willing to listen to all players.

Fiddler · Apr 28, 2025 6:17 AM

I think merging eras 1-3 together for futurity is fine

Honestly ( and futurity is absolutely my thing) If you kept era 0
Separate, and doubled up every other 2 eras except for the most recent ones so era 0, era 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, etc and then
Era 15, 16, 17, 18
It would really simplify it

my opinion

Aidendale · Apr 28, 2025 6:22 AM

"Like I said above this is a looong term problem that is slowly building. We can take our sweet time when it comes to solving it. This can be a gentle correction."

"We are talking about a change that MIGHT happen in 9 months and over the span of multiple real life years."

Were among the things you said to assuage my concerns. I'm sorry you're dealing with a headache, and also sorry if I'm adding to it. I don't want to, I'm not deliberately being difficult, I just want to state what my issues are and why. This will probably be my last post in here because I will have done so and doing so further after this wouldn't contribute anything but more stress to me.

The best I can do for making my case again is to just copy-paste what I said in the Discord, as I don't have the spoons to write it all up again:

A lot of the impact for me is the investment - the IVs and gmts spent, barn space bought (and upgraded) to keep more stallions so I could participate in more futurity eras, etc. And the fact that I only just started seriously doing it, so it hurts to *just* start succeeding (and thus be incentivized to sink more time and money into it) only to get hit with changes that render putting in the time/effort/etc. null and void.

It's not even about the gmts, I supported capping those and I'm not going to change my stance just because I started doing well. (Not that we're talking about doing that, I just want to make it clear that that's not what it's about to me. I'm still astonished that I've ever gotten more than 50, let alone what in February.)

Basically, I would want to be able to feel like I at least got back what I invested before the change hits instead of like I wasted it because I wasn't anticipating changes of this kind of scale.

Ammit · Apr 28, 2025 6:36 AM

I am always willing to give more weight to those being impacted than those not, but they still have a right to voice thier opinions too.

I understand that it may be too upsetting to you to see them voice thier opinions but I have a responsibility to listen to everyone not just discord members.

CheshireFarms · Apr 28, 2025 6:59 AM

I wasn't trying to be unkind. I just have that kind of "get it over with" personality since things have kinda changed since the discord discussion.

As I recall the discord suggestion was 0-1 retiring or maybe just 0 and then every 6 months after that 2 more returning until we were down to 10. Then there was some discussion about keeping Era 0 open because it was the biggest Era. Buy there was confusion over how we would break up names, and what would happen if a retire era horse boosted down into an unretired era.

It just seemed overly complicated for me, and I felt like the simplest thing to do was just retire down to 10. Specially since you said once horses hit cap, they all compete the same in pointed classes (I believe that was the response?)

I don't know about anyone else, but I really regret changing my game play style over to Eras. I feel like it's taken the fun out of the game for me, and that's all I'm focused on. And I can't keep up with Futurities. I can't focus on my breeding to others and advertising my horses to breed to, and then everything in-between plus my own breeding program. It's really exhausting me. If there were less Eras I think it would free up player resources, at least in bluegrass.

Even with you offering a free 250 stall, we have less people enter Team 50 events each month.

Fiddler · Apr 28, 2025 7:12 AM

@cheshirefarms i thought futurity was doing way better!
And I forgot completely a about the barn prize! Woohoo

Ammit · Apr 28, 2025 8:21 AM

The same suggestion Fiddler made was also made on Forest so reposting my response here:

Clumping eras like that would be vastly more complex from a programing standpoint and I am thinking would be a technical nightmare. They would not be unmergeable if we did them like that. Not opposed to the idea but I just want to make the technical limits clear. If it's strongly favored by the membership I can look into it more.

Ammit · Apr 28, 2025 8:56 AM

Had a walk and thought about it and I think I can make clumped eras work.

Ambervalleyarabians · Apr 28, 2025 9:25 AM

i think era 0 and the new era should be left alone. there are a lot of people in 0, and that seems to be an ultimate goal for a lot of people.

era 18 (currently) or the new era(s) should also be separate. it would be hard for the new era to compete against foundation with red papers in the mix.

everything else can be combined. im fine with that. futurities are getting harder to find stallions posted, especially in eras 1-3

i think a 15-era limit will suffice, at least for now. we can combine 3-4 different eras into one group and go from there.

as for speed, we can kinda do both, all at once and over time, programming resources permitted, of course. can do one grouping now. eras 1 to four, and see how that goes? That would get us down to 15 eras

Ammit · Apr 28, 2025 9:47 AM

Only older eras would be considered for merging never limited eras or primary eras. Era 0 is massive and would never be the smallest era, so would never come up for merging under the proposed system.

Forestshadow · Apr 28, 2025 10:12 AM

I've been away from the game for too long to have much say in this matter, but I have always bred for myself and always viewed my horses making the boards in any capacity as a bonus since I don't boost my lines and have a natural progression. I'm fine with whatever Ammit decides on and will just adjust to the changes.

Chiere · Apr 28, 2025 10:18 AM

Re, names… I’m still trying to figure it all out, so forgive me if I spout nonsense, lol.

Regarding Eras, what I basically know about them is I like Taylor Swift. Also, I ‘think’ it’s age related; foals ‘born’ two years ago will be a lower Era as opposed to ones born 6 months ago. Unless you breed higher Era but-not-current-Era horses together. Then the foal inherits a parent’s Era? I expect to be wrong about this. Anyway, if this is remotely true, would there be a way to keep the Era designation of a horse but combine them into the new category? I know there are already classes and their names in use, so ignore if I inadvertently use one here. This is for an example only.

0 is huge. It stays until the last pony goes to sleep forever; it disappears by attrition. But let’s say Era 1, Era 2, Era 3, etc., total less than all of 0 so they get combined. (So far, as mentioned.) Instead of calling this new grouping Era Something-or-other, (Era A, Era Prime,) call it Aged Division, or Senior Division. On the horse’s card they would be Senior Era 1, Senior Era 2, etc. While now they all show in the Senior club, they’re still marked for convenience sake, and their Eras need to be considered for Futurities. At the same time, any ‘new’ Era 1s, Era 2s, dat-da-dah, that get created starting 12/25, (if that’s even a thing,) start rolling into the Senior/Aged and lose their Era 1, Era 2 tags as the Eras reset. Start over? Anyway, when Era 12 (or howmanyeverweendupwith,) ends, instead of Era 13, the then-existing Era 1 rolls into the Senior division, freeing up the new Era 1s to be reused.

After members have settled into that, if you need to group more Eras, take the next two or three and put them into the Intermediate Division.

Not sure how you’d shift Intermediate into Senior tho. I gave up any type of attempting to program anything when Adobe Dreamweaver was old, and you could buy it outright. And drop a disk into the computer. W/o an external reader… Also, I failed C++ in college, half a century ago… and What’s html?

Completely unrelated, but actually is, I see nothing wrong with rewarding “Sponsorships.” I completely understand Aidendale’s concerns. I know they can’t be the only one with similar concerns. I also understand Ammit needs an income. Money good! Would there be a way to create a “sponsorship” program anyone can use if they’re willing to pay cash muneez, and use the current strong supporters as the beta testers? Until the bugs are smoothed out, and complaints are resolved, perhaps they can be grandfathered in? (Because Ammit needs more to do….) Would selling stallion ads or advertising farms or even an ‘In-Rememberance’ of a passed pixel pony, be an avenue of income? Have one link that goes to an advertisement page, sell blocks of months (so you’re not scrambling every month to change them out,) and provide a template where they build their own that can be plugged in. Obvs I’m way over simplifying. But look what advertising did for Prince Plaudit; his name still reverberates down Appaloosa lines today. People are passionate about their ponies, real or pixelated.

Don’t know if any of that was helpful. I debated saying anything because I’m really inexperienced, and you guys and your amazing smarts intimidate me. But I’m an extrovert and have never been afraid to just jump right out there. I do often have regrets, xD

annismyrph · Apr 28, 2025 11:48 AM

OK, now I am a bit confused.. I thought this combination was for the Era's and now I see Futurtities also being discussed? Is it for Both or Just Era's? If futurtities are also being combined then it impacts more then just the breeder clubs, and also I think players differently.. we average about 20-25 players going for the Furt actively every month, which is a good chunk of this server.. I think there are about 90 players active in Bluegrass now? Based off the "GMT Award" list. This is becoming more confusing to me instead of less, so I think I too will stop posting and just read what happens, I dont think the server is going to be as populated or active as it has been going foward due to the economy in the US and Canada, so it may whittle its own number of pixel ponies down over time anyway.

MackZ · Apr 28, 2025 1:00 PM

Ambervalleyarabians touched on a good point about the futurities and why combining them would likely help the server. When breeding season opens each month, it seems like era 0 and the newer eras get their LBs filled up pretty quickly, but the older 'in-between' eras struggle to get their boards filled without someone, usually Fiddler, making posts saying "X number of studs needed to fill era #_, post your studs to help fill the board". Even with those posts, it usually seems to take some time and several helpers just to get those boards filled, let alone create some competition. For me, even though I want to support as many eras as I can, there are some genes I'm just not willing to add to my lines, some genes that are a must, and certain breeding standards I stick to to maintain quality. That significantly reduces the pool of studs I'll breed to because each player has their own gene preferences, and no one stud will make everyone happy. Personally, I enjoy my color lines too much to neglect them and focus on era lines. I'll willingly add eras to my color lines, but I don't have the space for spelded futurity foals to support all eras in addition to the spelds from my color lines.

Also, as CheshireFarms said: "I don't know about anyone else, but I really regret changing my game play style over to Eras. I feel like it's taken the fun out of the game for me, and that's all I'm focused on. And I can't keep up with Futurities. I can't focus on my breeding to others and advertising my horses to breed to, and then everything in-between plus my own breeding program. It's really exhausting me. If there were less Eras I think it would free up player resources, at least in bluegrass.

Even with you offering a free 250 stall, we have less people enter Team 50 events each month."
I've noticed the same trend and struggle, and, with all the stress everyone is under outside of the game, I think the combining of eras might help ease the struggle and bring back some of the fun that is missing for some players.

I do understand the frustration Aidendale has expressed, and I think Ammit's proposal of waiting until December would help ease that frustration. Eight more months to enjoy the fruits of your labor seems fair in a game built for busy adults. That time also gives everyone plenty of opportunity to consider and develop adjustments to their gaming strategies if they want to be competitive.
For those who consider LB/Era awards to be a helpful bonus to their color-focused breeding fun, the proposed changes likely won't make much of a difference.

ConfluenceStable · Apr 28, 2025 5:25 PM

I, also, play just for myself, and any LB placings are icing on the cake.
I would, however, like to suggest for the combined board names: Smushed!

Ammit · Apr 28, 2025 7:28 PM

I am definitely hearing the strain bluegrass is under with futurities. There are just way too many. That is why I am worried adding ANOTHER in June will just be too much.

I don't believe there is any reason to merge era clubs in June for bluegrass, those can absolutely wait. Do we need to merge some futurity eras though? Take some of the strain off. 6 months of even more than we already have now may break the player base. We don't want them to be a job and a drain on people.

Also the general vibe I am getting is to go for 15 active era clubs. To start with at least.

I am also considering an idea having the number of active clubs be based on the amount of activity. Under that idea if any club has more than 20k horses it is safe from merging and any club with less than 10k being automatically merged (at next era change).

I like the flexibility of scaling on activity level but the predictability of a set count.

MackZ · Apr 28, 2025 9:30 PM

I like your flexibility idea, Ammit. If that's a viable option from a programming standpoint, I think it would please a lot of the more apprehensive players.

CheshireFarms · Apr 29, 2025 1:59 AM

Just throwing numbers around, but let's say Era 8 closes but Era 7 is still open. Can you boost down your retired Eras 8 into Era 7?

Ammit · Apr 29, 2025 4:02 AM

Yes in that situation you could boost back into a more active era.

Fiddler · Apr 29, 2025 5:39 AM

So The idea I had, combining eras, that would work for just futurity? That would be great!

Ammit · Apr 29, 2025 5:41 AM

Long term no. I am saying above that if bluegrass needs futurity era numbers intervention in June instead of in December to speak up. I can do futurity only for the short term as a stop gap.

@Aidendale please let me know if an earlier time line for just the futurities would cause distress. I believe your concerns where focused on the era clubs, right?

Ammit · Apr 29, 2025 5:54 AM

Looking at the numbers, I am thinking we could merge eras 1,2 and 3 together to make 1 futurity board of 23k horses. Then merge 4 and 5 together to make another 23k futurity board. Then instead of 19 futurity eras in June there would be 16.

The other option would be to merge 1 to 4 together for a new board of 36k, and then 5 and 6 together for another 36k board. Then in June there would be 15 futurities to fill.

Either is doable as a short term to take the pressure off the futurity while we wait for the era clubs to catch up. This would not impact era clubs in any way. No era clubs would be merged in June, only futurity boards. I am also open to other splits and combos.

Let me know what you are feeling either for or against this. Both are valid.

Reminder that 35k is the average size of a bluegrass era in living horses.

annismyrph · Apr 29, 2025 6:11 AM

I think merging into the smaller groups would be an easier solution, and be less of a "shock" to the people unsure of where this is going, myself included, but it will probably impact the more active Futurity Breeders more.

Ammit · Apr 29, 2025 6:13 AM

annismyrph do you mean smaller than I suggested above?

annismyrph · Apr 29, 2025 6:46 AM

@Ammit, no I ment the smaller "groups" you suggested.

Looking at the numbers, I am thinking we could merge eras 1,2 and 3 together to make 1 futurity board of 23k horses. Then merge 4 and 5 together to make another 23k futurity board. Then instead of 19 futurity eras in June there would be 16.

paradoxphoenix · Apr 29, 2025 6:50 AM

I don’t have a lot to add as far as logistics and suggestions, but I will say, as someone who does play Eras, I do think this is a great idea.

I love playing Eras, but I have started to feel the overwhelm of new Eras myself as I try to figure out how to balance old and new. (Establishing new lines and joining the new race on the Era boards is fun, but how do I continue maintaining all those lines) I feel like this gives me “permission” to let the old fade away to play with the new.

Although I probably will always keep some old lines around for sentimental reasons, I can just let them exist as show stock producers.

Thank you for always making sure the game stays sustainable!

Humboldt · Apr 29, 2025 6:58 AM

I'm a little late to this discussion. Honestly I'm open to any changes that are going to benefit the server.

As a former breeder of just color and mostly breeding in my own pastures, I drastically changed how I played over the past 6 months. My own pastures are getting ignored and I can't get to sorting them or keeping foals. My poor Platinum line...

On the upside because I have focused on Eras and Leaderboards, I have a lot of current Era winners and have had fun breeding outside lines - it is just way more time consuming as its hand breeding vs pasture so I don't keep nearly the same volume of foals I did before.

I don't really know what I'm going to do moving forward - I don't make fancy foundations anymore as my own goals have changed and fantasy lines aren't bred much anymore. I have considered continuing to downsize my own personal lines and just focus on Eras and futurities. I feel like downsizing to less eras quickly would allow me to jump into all of them without being overwhelmed.

Aidendale · Apr 29, 2025 10:56 AM

@Ammit: It does, but it's favored by and better for everyone else, so there's really nothing for it.

Ammit · Apr 29, 2025 11:09 AM

Sorry I am unclear what the "it" in your sentences are talking about. Do you mean merging just futurities causes also causes a lot of distress? Looking at your awards it does not look like you are very invested in futurities in those eras. I am also unclear what you think is favored and better for everyone else. I want to make sure I am understanding you clearly so your concerns can be heard.

This is an early point in the conversation. I imagine we have a few weeks of discussion to came so it is far too early to know how things will land yet.

Aidendale · Apr 29, 2025 11:22 AM

I have some younger stallions in those eras I invested in that I would not have invested in (whether the gmts, IVs, or time to to promote) if I'd known the changes were coming.

I just don't like being the one person complaining and being a stick in the mud, and I don't have it in me to try to debate my "side" as it were. I'll just eat the investment and deal with it.

Ammit · Apr 29, 2025 11:35 AM

I am not sure what gave you the impression that you are the only person looking for a longer roll out. That is far from what is going on. Across all servers the majority of players are leaning towards slower. Just because a few players have vocally supported a quick roll out does not mean anything is decided.

Ammit · Apr 29, 2025 11:42 AM

Also no need to just eat an investment. If we end up going with a choice that invalidates an investment you made I have zero problem buying it back off you. We can find a compromise. No one has to suffer. :)

Kintara · Apr 29, 2025 6:16 PM

I like the idea of Era's 1, 2 and 3 combining sooner rather than later. I find futurities easier personally as I can use fantasy horses, but the era clubs are getting hard to fill in some eras. I think if you do it for futurities, do it for the clubs as well. We filled the futurity clubs quite quickly when we noticed they were low, a lot harder to do with Era clubs. I have enjoyed bringing back some of my old era lines, but I'm happy that they just won't all be in Era0, so I'm ok with the combined eras.
I wouldn't want to go straight down to 10 eras at once, but I'd like to try combining some clubs sooner rather than later just so we can see how it all works. Doing all the eras is getting harder, each 6 months we wait is another era added on. Even the current eras are getting less competitive on some servers I noticed

Ammit · Apr 29, 2025 7:20 PM

We are in no rush to merge any era clubs. We are switching to circuits in June with solves any issues with them being able to run. So that's already a fixed problem.

The issue with era clubs is solely one of technical limits on the running of them. The chickens are a long way from roosting on that one.

GoldenSpur · Apr 29, 2025 7:50 PM

I’m possible not the best person to comment as I’ve only just started back playing this year. And when I was playing I focused on the Fantasy clubs only. So I can’t comment on the Era clubs.

I have been trying to help out with futurities as much as I can and I think that combining the lower eras for futurity in June would help with the overall strain on the members that do promote the Futurities. I’ve noticed that it is hard work for everyone to get 450+ stallions on the boards every month.
The horses that we have boosted onto a specific Era will still be competitive in the combined Era’s though.

Ammit · Apr 29, 2025 8:23 PM

The horses that we have boosted onto a specific Era will still be competitive in the combined Era’s though.

This is a very important point. Some of the futurity eras on bluegrass are so marginal that horses with sub 20 points are on the boards. That's not competition, that's warm body stacking. I don't think people who have serious futurity contender studs will have any impact from some merging. Particularly if we do clumped merging to keep board numbers smaller. People ***star studs are simply not threaded by the *star and A paper studs at the top of many of these boards.

Ammit · Apr 29, 2025 8:35 PM

I am starting to wonder if we need to manage clubs and futurity merging separately for the long haul. Maybe we need more like 10 eras for futurities but can handle 15 for clubs.

There has been talk on mesa about having club merging be more based on activity. For example we might have a rule that any club with 25k+ active horses is safe from merging, but any club with less than 10k would be on an accelerated track for merging.

If we are handling both clubs and futurities independently we could have different rules for them.

Yes it might be a bit more confusing as to which ones are going to merge, but since the behavior is different between clubs and futurities maybe we need to handle them differently. As long as the information is displayed clearly on the page it should be alright.

ETA: I updated the futurity standings up date to show how active any given era is.

Our most active is era 0 with 103 studs and 89,789 points.
our least active is 8 with only 25 studs and 15.7k points. Era 7 is the 3rd lowest activity era. Maybe it makes more sense to look into combining 7 and 8 together instead of era 1 with anything since it is a pretty healthy active futurity even if the club is tiny.

ETA2: Looking at all 3 servers I think it's safe to categorize a "health" futurity era as having triple digit points all the way to 25th place, and a board where 20th place does not have triple digits is in major trouble.

On bluegrass the boards that don't have triple digits to 25th are: 2,3,7,8,9,10,11,13

The boards without triple digits at 20th place are: 7 and 8

Both ways of looking at it 7 and 8 are the weak futurity boards. Maybe in June it makes sense to merge just them so the number of futurities at least does not increase before December.

CheshireFarms · Apr 30, 2025 2:25 AM

From a breeding perspective, I find it very confusing to have a horses Era LB closed while the Futurity is still open, or when the Futurity is closed and the Era LB is still open.

Until now, I just assumed whatever we did to one, we did to the other. Sounds complicated, and I guess I just like uniformity.

Ammit · Apr 30, 2025 4:37 AM

No eras are closing. While consistency is nice, systems that work are much more important.

CheshireFarms · Apr 30, 2025 8:07 AM

Ok so not closing, but merging. They are no longer individual eras, so for me that's the same as closing. If there's not enough breeding horses to meet an Era quota, I would think that also means there isn't enough futurity breeding, so they would also merge.

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This is a complex situation with a lot of moving bits and a rather rambly post. If you need clarification on anything please just ask. Thank you.

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